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Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

theguardian.com

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Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#41

Post by applfanboysbgon »

quickthrowman wrote: post #38
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

98% of new car sales in Norway are EV at this point. How do you admit something that is not true?

A wealthy nation with a small population that has plenty of money to update their infrastructure is not comparable to upgrading the grid and converting the fleet of 250M cars in the US, which is a mess of 50 states who spend varying amounts of money on their infrastructure. The US grid is already stressed by all these new data centers, where is the power to send 10kW of power minimum to tens to hundreds of millions o…

> which is a mess of 50 states who spend varying amounts of money on their infrastructure.

That is not a tech problem, which is the claim I was replying to.

I saw your deleted comment about four charging stations costing $200,000 or so. Four petrol stations also cost that much. Nobody is saying infrastructure is free, but phasing out infrastructure is simply a matter of time and political will, not a fundamental tech problem.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#42

Post by ceejayoz »

luizfzs wrote: post #35
ceejayoz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By limiting imports and offering alternatives in home. Yeah, that's kinda how Cuba winds up with everyone (well, the small portion of society who can obtain one) driving 1950s cars around. It's not a good approach.

AFAIK, they're not limiting imports. They are heavily embargoed since 1960s, which also affects other countries' abilities to trade with them, under the threat of themselves being sanctioned.

An embargo is an externally imposed limit on imports.

Doing it to to yourself is a special sort of stupid.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#43

Post by xp84 »

tpm wrote: post #7
fullshark wrote: post #3

Isn't it over and China owns this market anyway? How can any other country possibly compete?

On long-term support and parts availability perhaps - I seriously doubt most of Chinese models bought now will have parts readily available in 5+ years. VW (and their other brands) and BMW have good new EVs coming to market now, while Toyota is waking up too. They will survive I think. Stellantis though, not sure about them. And many Chinese carmakers will be gone too.

If Stellantis dies it won’t be because of insufficient EV zeal. It’ll be because they mostly make garbage cars no one wants. Saw this funny video about the top 10 cars with the most still-unsold inventory of their 2024(!) MY:

https://youtu.be/R20QEyrQ2FE?si=cou6HgknYQOc8zbt

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#44

Post by Forgeties79 »

quickthrowman wrote: post #38
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

98% of new car sales in Norway are EV at this point. How do you admit something that is not true?

A wealthy nation with a small population that has plenty of money to update their infrastructure is not comparable to upgrading the grid and converting the fleet of 250M cars in the US, which is a mess of 50 states who spend varying amounts of money on their infrastructure. The US grid is already stressed by all these new data centers, where is the power to send 10kW of power minimum to tens to hundreds of millions o…

Norway is hardly alone. More and more countries are increasing EV purchases and decreasing ice purchases. We are clearly headed in that direction

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#45

Post by ceejayoz »

lycopodiopsida wrote: post #37
ceejayoz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sooo... where's the retreat? As the article says; "In the US"

Why talk about “western” then, not about “US”? Because clickbait?

https://imgur.com/a/XCQQ3cD

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#46

Post by thyristan »

seb1204 wrote: post #34
izacus wrote: post #17

VAG group has EVs (and pretty good ones) across the board: VW with ID series, Škoda with Enyaq/Elroq/Epiq, Audi with eTron series (SUV, sedan and estate), SEAT with Cupra Born and others. BMW just launched Neue Klasse, with iX3 selling like hot cakesa nd i3 looking amazing, with i7 in pipeline. Mercedes also launched a great new platform with CLA which is coming to other sizes as well. Meanwhile, Renault 5 is selling…

Porsche... Eye roll

Porsche isn't so much into the car business as it is into the genital enlargement business...

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#48

Post by burnt-resistor »

Embrace and skip to extinguish. Remember the EV-1 anyone? The standard strategy for a Detroit mfgr is to half-heartedly go through the motions of EV offerings so they can "prove" "no one wants them", it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy that also discourages change influence on the customer side as well. Marketing, advertising, and investment with intent and impactful efficacy would manufacture consent for different products.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#49

Post by BoredPositron »

thyristan wrote: post #31

Western car makers learned the hard lesson that, at least in most of Europe, electricity prices are far too high, EV prices are too high, and customers do know how to use their calculators. In Germany, the only thing propping up the EV market are tax subsidies for commercially used EVs, so company cars are very likely to be EV or at least hybrid. For the rest of sales? Only idealists buy EVs, and then only those with…

French manufacturers, on the other hand, are experiencing a revival by prioritizing EVs and treating ICE vehicles as a secondary focus. If you look at the numbers across the Volkswagen Group (the entire AG, including Audi, Porsche, and Skoda), a clear trend emerges: the only brands currently in trouble are those that abandoned an EV first approach.

Skoda and Cupra are thriving, and it’s not just because of their affordability. They are steadily increasing their EV sales percentages while heavily promoting them as first class citizens within their portfolios. Porsche, by contrast, is hitting roadblocks because they are trying to retrofit their new EV first models to accommodate ICE powertrains. Meanwhile, Volkswagen Nutzfahrzeuge just posted their best quarter ever, driven specifically by their ICE lineup.

The main problem for German automakers was losing their core identity by chasing a "Modern Luxury" business model prioritizing low sales volume in exchange for high per unit margins. Electricity prices are simply not a factor in their demise.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#50

Post by kdheiwns »

PreciousH wrote: post #18

no one is willing to admit the EV tech isn't just there yet to fully replace gas powered cars?

I only hear people in certain countries say this. Meanwhile many countries with rough terrain and long roads are already all in on EVs.
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