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Our commitment to Windows quality

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#911

Post by pjmlp »

aeternum wrote: post #527
PaulKeeble wrote: post #469

Microsoft has spent over a decade swimming against their users interests at this point and during that time frame Linux has been improving its desktop and improving kernel performance. We are now at the point where Linux emulating Window's entire API space for games with worse drivers is dangerously close on performance with none of the privacy invasion and anti user features. Its pretty late in the game for them to…

Much of big tech became Product leaders running amok. Somehow It shifted from users know best to "Product" knows best. I think this all stemmed everyone wanting to be Apple except no one actually achieved it and now we have 3 different versions of the audio control panel in Windows, the start button is somehow in the middle of the screen, and windows search no longer searches your PC. Deleting "Product" might save wi…

People having Apple in high regard should also learn about its history, and the almost bankruptcy that didn't kill the company out of sheer luck.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#912

Post by eproxus »

rmunn wrote: post #837
suby wrote: post #814

Quality is not the issue. We should be more specific - Microsoft has been consciously employing dark patterns that they know will be harmful to users but they do not care because their incentives are misaligned. Employees of Microsoft have surely had meetings scheming of ways to degrade user experience for some internal metric they are trying to hit. A decade+ of conscious, willful decisions which negatively impact u…

Precisely. When I noticed the vagueness of most of those points, I did a Ctrl+F for "OneDrive". It produced zero results. Which is all I needed to know about Microsoft's sincerity. In fact, let me quote the first two items on that list in their entirety, then comment on them: > More taskbar customization, including vertical and top positions: > Repositioning the taskbar is one of the top asks we’ve heard from you. We…

It's basically the blog post version of "Yes | Remind me later". I have very little trust at this point that anything tied to short term financial interest will change (OneDrive, AI, Recall, Microsoft accounts vs local accounts, data collection etc.). Obviously (to us, but apparently not to them) it is ultimately tied to long term financial interest. I don't believe they are able to see that based on the decisions they've been taking the last decade.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#913

Post by duskdozer »

delecti wrote: post #903
canucker2016 wrote: post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... the start button is somehow in the middle of the screen ... If you take a look at the size of widescreen monitors, you can kinda guess why someone decided to move the start button/menu to the middle of the screen. I know Samsung and Dell have ginmorous 49 inch monitors. Start menu that pops up from the lower left corner of the monitor would be a bad UX - the user might not even notice that a menu had popped up…

You used to be able to move the taskbar to any side of the screen. IMO the more sensible move for widescreen monitors is to move it to the side so it takes up less screen real estate. Windows 11 removed the ability to move the taskbar like that; it's stuck on the bottom (unless you seek out 3rd party software solutions). Also it should be noted that (at least as recently as September, haven't used 11 since) you could…

The article mentions they're (re?)adding in the ability to put it on any edge of the screen

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#914

Post by duskdozer »

JohnFen wrote: post #444
kstrauser wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, at least on end-user devices as opposed to servers. If you make it possible to defer updates indefinitely, users will. Guaranteed. Doesn't matter how urgent or critical the update is, how bad the bug or vulnerability it patches is, how disastrous the consequences may be: they'll never, ever voluntarily apply them. If you're running a server, and willing to accept the risk of deferral because 1) you're in…

The real sin is combining security updates with feature updates. An argument can be made for enforced security updates(1). There is no good argument for forcing feature updates. Most security-only updates have a low risk of interfering with with the user or causing instability. Most feature updates have a high risk of doing so. (1) Although I think there should be some way of disabling even those, even if that way is…

Basically, if I trust you (the dev/software maker/whatever) to not change UIs and add in bullshit, I'm okay having auto updates on. Unfortunately can't trust much now

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#915

Post by rmunn »

eproxus wrote: post #912
rmunn wrote: post #837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely. When I noticed the vagueness of most of those points, I did a Ctrl+F for "OneDrive". It produced zero results. Which is all I needed to know about Microsoft's sincerity. In fact, let me quote the first two items on that list in their entirety, then comment on them: > More taskbar customization, including vertical and top positions: > Repositioning the taskbar is one of the top asks we’ve heard from you. We…

It's basically the blog post version of "Yes | Remind me later". I have very little trust at this point that anything tied to short term financial interest will change (OneDrive, AI, Recall, Microsoft accounts vs local accounts, data collection etc.). Obviously (to us, but apparently not to them) it is ultimately tied to long term financial interest. I don't believe they are able to see that based on the decisions th…

Short-term profits vs long-term profits is a tension that many companies end up making bad choices about. A comment elsewhere in this discussion by safety1st mentioned the stages companies tend to go through. First, growth, growing market share by providing a good product. Then, in safety1st's words, "TAKING PROFITS wherever it can find them. This includes but is not limited to cutting back on its investment in product, as much as it can. If it can cut budgets and quality and give that money to the shareholders it will. If it can inject ads into the product or resell your data it will." Then decline, because you've focused so hard on short-term profit that you've sacrificed the long term.

The only part of safety1st's comment that I disagree with is that all companies go through this. It's not true. Most do, but not all. There are SOME companies that manage to resist short-term thinking, and remain focused on long-term profit by continuing to make good products that their customers like. They do tend to be the ones owned by a small number of people, rather than publicly traded, but they exist. To name just one, McMaster-Carr. They still make quality machine parts, just as they did about a hundred twenty-five years ago when they got started, and from all reports their customers remain quite happy with them. Their website is one of the better websites out there, too.

But yes, Microsoft is falling victim to the short-term vs long-term thinking trap that so many other companies fall into. They're trying to claim, in this post, that they're going back to thinking long-term, i.e. NOT alienating the customers you'll still need ten, twenty, thirty years from now. But I don't think they're truly shifting their mindset.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#916

Post by WillAdams »

gnarlouse wrote: post #719
aeternum wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of big tech became Product leaders running amok. Somehow It shifted from users know best to "Product" knows best. I think this all stemmed everyone wanting to be Apple except no one actually achieved it and now we have 3 different versions of the audio control panel in Windows, the start button is somehow in the middle of the screen, and windows search no longer searches your PC. Deleting "Product" might save wi…

Apple achieved it with Mac OS X Snow Leopard. Apple then spent ~15 years un-achieving it. It started with iOS 7, and has culminated in the Liquid (Gl)ass era: a mess of unintuitive menus, terrible and inconsistent UI patterns, the lobotomite twins Siri & Apple Intelligence. Although, surprisingly, built on top of absolutely incredible silicon.

I still regret that I did not get a ModBook running Snow Leopard.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#917

Post by user34283 »

icedrift wrote: post #539
stevage wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just me then? Those integrated search features have been around for so long, and always irritating. I use macOS. Same problem. Searching your computer or searching the web are fundamentally different tasks. I'm curious if anyone actually approaches them the same.

I don't like that default on mac either but in their defense it's super easy to customize. I turned off all but applications and my documents folder for spotlight search.

It's also easy on Windows:

The kebab button next to the search results takes you to Settings -> Privacy & security -> Search

Switch off Bing.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#918

Post by Figs »

999900000999 wrote: post #499
PaulKeeble wrote: post #469

Microsoft has spent over a decade swimming against their users interests at this point and during that time frame Linux has been improving its desktop and improving kernel performance. We are now at the point where Linux emulating Window's entire API space for games with worse drivers is dangerously close on performance with none of the privacy invasion and anti user features. Its pretty late in the game for them to…

Normal people can not install an OS. Aside from like 3 ThinkPads on Lenovo's website, you can't really buy Linux pre installed on a computer. This is about the MacBook Neo coming for the budget laptop market. At 500$ it's an easy choice.

> Normal people can not install an OS.

Of course they can. They might be too lazy or ignorant to do so, but it's not really any harder to learn to install Linux than it is to learn to make mashed potatoes once you're motivated to bother -- and billions of people have managed to do the latter just fine.

Normal people are absolutely capable of following basic directions like: "download this file", "insert a USB stick", "run this program", "reboot your computer", "double click the install icon", "click the 'Continue' button (or similar) following the on-screen prompts".

The file in question -- good enough for most people with a Windows computer from the last decade: https://pub.linuxmint.io/stable/22.3/linuxmint-22.3-cinnamon...

The program to run: https://etcher.balena.io/#download-etcher

Detailed instructions here, including screenshots if you need them: https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/lates...

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#919

Post by kstrauser »

nu11ptr wrote: post #886
kstrauser wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, at least on end-user devices as opposed to servers. If you make it possible to defer updates indefinitely, users will. Guaranteed. Doesn't matter how urgent or critical the update is, how bad the bug or vulnerability it patches is, how disastrous the consequences may be: they'll never, ever voluntarily apply them. If you're running a server, and willing to accept the risk of deferral because 1) you're in…

> I disagree, at least on end-user devices as opposed to servers. And who determines what is an "end-user device" vs a "server"? > If you're running a server, and willing to accept the risk of deferral because 1) you're in a better position to assess the risk and apply compensating controls than a regular user is, and 2) you're OK accepting the personal risk of having to explain to your boss why you kept deferring th…

> And who determines what is an "end-user device" vs a "server"?

Someone who decides to buy a Windows 20whatever Server license for the related hardware.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#920

Post by Frieren »

aeternum wrote: post #527
PaulKeeble wrote: post #469

Microsoft has spent over a decade swimming against their users interests at this point and during that time frame Linux has been improving its desktop and improving kernel performance. We are now at the point where Linux emulating Window's entire API space for games with worse drivers is dangerously close on performance with none of the privacy invasion and anti user features. Its pretty late in the game for them to…

Much of big tech became Product leaders running amok. Somehow It shifted from users know best to "Product" knows best. I think this all stemmed everyone wanting to be Apple except no one actually achieved it and now we have 3 different versions of the audio control panel in Windows, the start button is somehow in the middle of the screen, and windows search no longer searches your PC. Deleting "Product" might save wi…

> Somehow It shifted from users know best to "Product" knows best.

In a world where consumers have less and less power, products are designed to please CEOs.

Money is power, as inequality grows and concentrates the average user/worker/citizen has less power and their voices matter less. Today's Internet is designed for the needs of big corporations, users are there just as another product to be sold.

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