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Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

windowscentral.com

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Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#31

Post by chrisldgk »

People tend to forget that React != React-DOM (i.e. HTML).

React is just a framework for declaratively defining components and reactivity, the end result can be whatever you want. That’s what react-native is for mobile apps, and as another commenter pointed out, in this case it was using React Native for Windows[1], which apparently calls native Windows APIs in the background.

I like to jump on the MS hate train as much as the next guy, but React itself is not the reason the start menu is bad.

[1] https://microsoft.github.io/react-native-windows/

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#32

Post by victor106 »

I was hopeful for M$FT after they seemed to be ahead in AI compared to other large software co.

Since then they have largely lost the AI race (you can argue they were never in it as they never had a SOTA model and are piggy backing off OpenAI).

Now I read that Win11 is based on React, even a junior developer can tell you that running React natively on any platform will always suck.

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#33

Post by idiotsecant »

userbinator wrote: post #13
solid_fuel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I'm wondering. How dysfunctional is microsoft that they shipped a react-based start menu? It reads like satire, "Windows 11 is so bad that even microsoft doesn't use native controls".

MS also made one of the most hated IM and audiovisual meeting applications with web tech, replacing a previously (not great but much better) native one: Teams.

Teams was pretty bad when it released, but it's decent now I think.

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#35

Post by wolfi1 »

Panzerschrek wrote: post #11

Why it was necessary to rewrite start menu in React at all? Why rewriting what works fine?

my guess is many junior developers without guidance and perhaps a little vibe coding. could be that these new developers are not comfortable anymore with C++ and MFC so they use what they learned in their courses directed at web standards

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#36

Post by wolfi1 »

userbinator wrote: post #22
pjmlp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of stuff nowadays uses Webview2 across Windows. Not only has Project Reunion been a disaster (moving UWP regular Win32), apparently Microsoft new employees lack Windows experience, being raised in Chromebooks and Macs, apparently they aren't getting the trainings they should. You can go watch recordings of the community calls, and see puzzled faces when asked about Windows capabilities not yet supported on Win…

apparently Microsoft new employees lack Windows experience, being raised in Chromebooks and Macs, apparently they aren't getting the trainings they should. They should be given Petzold's famous book on the subject, published by Microsoft Press itself.

considering that they have still Russinovich and Raymond Chen in their midst it shouldn't be too hard to have a two week boot camp for those who write programs for the OS

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#37

Post by pjmlp »

wolfi1 wrote: post #36
userbinator wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

apparently Microsoft new employees lack Windows experience, being raised in Chromebooks and Macs, apparently they aren't getting the trainings they should. They should be given Petzold's famous book on the subject, published by Microsoft Press itself.

considering that they have still Russinovich and Raymond Chen in their midst it shouldn't be too hard to have a two week boot camp for those who write programs for the OS

Russinovich nowadays is busy with Azure, AI, and overseeing the Rust takeover at Azure, where 60% of the server load runs on Azure Linux.

Even Dave Cutler seems having some Azure Linux fun, with repurposed XBox Cloud racks for AI research, as per his Dave Garage interview.

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#38

Post by ralphc »

The big headline for our household will be to pause updates as long as needed. My wife is a CPA and having to manually delay and delay updates during the end of tax season(s) (March for corporates, April for personal, then again six months later) is an extra, unnecessary stress during those times for her.

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#39

Post by mft_ »

idiotsecant wrote: post #33
userbinator wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS also made one of the most hated IM and audiovisual meeting applications with web tech, replacing a previously (not great but much better) native one: Teams.

Teams was pretty bad when it released, but it's decent now I think.

It’s still randomly really slow (like, individual controls drawing one by one slow) on my recently-refreshed corporate laptop; and opening Teams was the last action before the entire Windows installation my personal laptop was nuked… but yes, it’s basically usable and reliable for video calls and team chat these days.

Re: Windows 11's Start menu was built using React – now switching to native WinUI

#40

Post by mft_ »

flohofwoe wrote: post #27
drysart wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not React. It's React Native. React Native and React are about as similar as JavaScript and Java. React Native is a way of orchestrating a UI comprised of native controls.

It's still baffling, since the core idea of React only makes sense as a workaround for limitations of the browser DOM. Wrapping much more flexible 'native' widget frameworks with a React layer is pure cargo culting (same with SwiftUI).

It tried to solve cross-platform development. That’s a legitimate issue.

In retrospect, calling it React probably caused more problems than it brought benefits, and makes little sense - like Java vs JavaScript.

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