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A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

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Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#201

Post by danmaz74 »

chasil wrote: post #97
pndy wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's equally complex dining and utensils etiquette in Western culture but it's largely omitted (or even unknown) on daily basis.

There is a wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_utensil_etiquette Edit: The wiki on chopsticks has an etiquette section broken down by country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopsticks#Chopstick_customs,_...

Fascinating. The difference of the American style where you switch the fork between the left and right hands reminded me of a similar difference in fishing gear - where Americans (to my understanding) mostly cast with their right hand and then switch the rod to their left hand when retrieving, while in Europe (or at least in Italy) you usually just keep the rod in the right hand instead of switching.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#202

Post by apeescape »

rvba wrote: post #180
maxerickson wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really a coherent statement. If people don't even know it, it's not part of the culture.

Is is also topic od relevance. Poland has honorifics that are probably on par to those in Japan, but since the language is difficult to learn and frankly speaking nobody cares about Poland, barely anyone even knows this. Also lots of corporations prefer "american style" approach of just refering by name (even to the CEO), so this dissapears. Probably could write few pages about this, but nobody would care to read.

I'm interested in learning more about this! As a Finn I love Poland and have been there multiple times (most recently just two weeks ago). I don't know the language, but details like honorifics reveal interesting tidbits of the culture and society. I guess I should prompt an LLM about it.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#203

Post by thaumasiotes »

cmcaleer wrote: post #105
cthalupa wrote: post #4

Interesting. Some of these are big deals (particularly the ones mentioned as important) but others I have seen Japanese people in Tokyo do quite consistently. Soroebashi - not on the table, but I've seen chopsticks aligned by pushing them against the plate hundreds of time. I've also seen them used to stir miso soup, etc. plenty. Others I don't know that I would have much of an inclination to do and haven't seen but…

I think if you were to do an Osaka version of this, the list would be limited to maybe 4 of these (licking, chopsticks upright in rice, passing between chopsticks, and pointing esp. toward a senior would be taboo). Whereas when I had a date with a girl from Kyoto, one of the first things that happened when we went to eat was she had to stop me from picking up my chopsticks impolitely and show me the proper way of doi…

Do you know how serious "chopsticks upright in rice" is? I had a Chinese teacher who mentioned the taboo (with regard to China, not Japan), but she also said that while people recognize that it's something you're not supposed to do, it's not taken seriously either.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#204

Post by thaumasiotes »

rglullis wrote: post #198
rkomorn wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to manners, I'd say seeing enough people fail to meet a standard means it's not a standard, at least.

No, that's argumentum ad populum. Mind you, I'm not saying that standards must be followed. I am just saying the same thing I tell my kids: - the standards are there, wishing they didn't exist doesn't invalidate them - the reason rules and standards came to existence might or might not be applicable to our current context, but some people will expect you to follow them regardless. - If a rule or standard seems silly…

> the standards are there, wishing they didn't exist doesn't invalidate them

If people act like a standard doesn't exist, then the standard actually doesn't exist, because that's the only thing that defines a standard.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#205

Post by dxdm »

maxerickson wrote: post #126
shermantanktop wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are the “people” that you are referring to? This makes total sense to me. There is no monolithic “culture”— there are multiple related cultures, differing little in essence but differing greatly in the details. And each individual is usually only partially ignorant anyway. Culture changes, too, and asymmetrically. So the “done thing” may be done be very few anymore.

I guess I was talking about the people that don't know about the culture you guys say they are part of.

For some reason, you're reading things into the original statement that are not there. "An etiquette exists in a culture" does not mean everyone has to follow or even be aware of it.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#206

Post by anthk »

cthalupa wrote: post #106
cmcaleer wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you were to do an Osaka version of this, the list would be limited to maybe 4 of these (licking, chopsticks upright in rice, passing between chopsticks, and pointing esp. toward a senior would be taboo). Whereas when I had a date with a girl from Kyoto, one of the first things that happened when we went to eat was she had to stop me from picking up my chopsticks impolitely and show me the proper way of doi…

It's always wild to me when I hear about how different the culture is between Osaka and Kyoto when they're so close.

Similar in Spain between Andalusia doing trades since forever across the whole Mediterranean Sea vs the inner provinces (the Castille-s) and the chilly Atlantic North regions with Celtic/Basque substrates.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#207

Post by thaumasiotes »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #95
wahnfrieden wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bringing the bowl close to your mouth and picking food up from it is proper. Pushing it from the bowl into your mouth is impolite but common.

I thought it was okay to shovel noodles, but have not heard it was okay for rice.

I haven't been specifically informed as to either question, but I find that idea surprising, since noodles are infinitely easier to pick up with chopsticks than rice is.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#210

Post by nssnsjsjsjs »

cmcaleer wrote: post #105
cthalupa wrote: post #4

Interesting. Some of these are big deals (particularly the ones mentioned as important) but others I have seen Japanese people in Tokyo do quite consistently. Soroebashi - not on the table, but I've seen chopsticks aligned by pushing them against the plate hundreds of time. I've also seen them used to stir miso soup, etc. plenty. Others I don't know that I would have much of an inclination to do and haven't seen but…

I think if you were to do an Osaka version of this, the list would be limited to maybe 4 of these (licking, chopsticks upright in rice, passing between chopsticks, and pointing esp. toward a senior would be taboo). Whereas when I had a date with a girl from Kyoto, one of the first things that happened when we went to eat was she had to stop me from picking up my chopsticks impolitely and show me the proper way of doi…

Could be the Japanese version of getting a friend to "save them from the date" by calling to pretend it is an emergency.
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