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Waymo Safety Impact

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Re: Waymo Safety Impact

#241

Post by Ferret7446 »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #142
jjmarr wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo saved my life in LA. When I visited LA, I rode in a Waymo going the speed limit in the right lane on a very busy street. The Waymo approached an intersection where it had the right of way, when suddenly a car ignored its stop sign and drove into the road. In less than a second, the Waymo moved into the left lane and kept going. I didn't even realize what was happening until after it was over. Most human drivers…

I think you're over-playing how decisively a Waymo will move and under-playing how decent the average human is. I've ridden in Waymos. They don't exactly slap on the blinker and move at the limit of traction like someone about to miss their exit. If cut off they absolutely will go full brake rather than perform any sort of spicy lane change or turn.

I think you're humongously overselling the average driver. I mean, the stats for waymo vs human drivers speak for themselves.

Re: Waymo Safety Impact

#242

Post by Ferret7446 »

toast0 wrote: post #176
0x3f wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there some benefit to talking to weird Uber drivers I've yet to discover that's comparable with 'going outside at all'?

Interaction with the common person is great. I wouldn't have know one could trim their toenails while driving otherwise.

There are probably better places to interact with other people than rideshares, like at a public establishment. There's significantly less risk

Re: Waymo Safety Impact

#243

Post by Ferret7446 »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #93
gowld wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how Waymo works, though. Waymo doesn't imitate humans. Waymo is trained to obey traffic laws and avoid collisions.

Waymo immitates humans insofar as its neural net trained on avoiding collisions after millions of miles of video footage and LIDAR data on roads shared with humans causes it to immitate humans. It's likely manually programmed not to (incorrectly) turn the wheel to the left while stopped and waiting for an opportunity to turn. If you get rear-ended, you'll end up in the lane of oncoming traffic. It's certainly program…

> It's likely manually programmed not to (incorrectly) turn the wheel to the left while stopped and waiting for an opportunity to turn.

I'm both surprised and not surprised that people do this. You'll hit the divider.

Re: Waymo Safety Impact

#244

Post by Ferret7446 »

stebalien wrote: post #15

I live in LA and Waymos are the only cars I don't have to play chicken with when crossing the street. Even the drivers that see you will just give you a "sorry, I'm in a rush" wave as they nearly run you over.

Are these at pedestrian crossings or jaywalking?

Re: Waymo Safety Impact

#245

Post by saalweachter »

jjmarr wrote: post #216
zx8080 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Waymo saved my life in LA. When I visited LA, I rode in a Waymo going the speed limit in the right lane on a very busy street. The Waymo approached an intersection where it had the right of way, when suddenly a car ignored its stop sign and drove into the road. > ... > Unfortunately, the Waymo only supported Spotify and did not work with my YouTube Music subscription, so I was listening to an advertisement at the t…

Here is a photo I took inside of the Waymo outside of an Erewhon. Going to Erewhon and experiencing the $20 Hailey Bieber smoothie was on my brother's bucket list and riding in a Waymo was on mine. https://files.catbox.moe/jdjwy5.jpg https://files.catbox.moe/mh4ivw.jpg I have included EXIF data in an attempt to prove this really happened and I'm not an AI commenting bot.

Pffft, like a bot couldn't fake metadata.

Re: Waymo Safety Impact

#246

Post by jamilton »

mtklein wrote: post #37
Retric wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo as a system has crossed the threshold where I trust them more than average driver, but all this hardware is relatively new, well maintained, and their software is closely tied to it. I’m way less confident of self driving in the hands of the general public when differed maintenance often results in people and even companies driving with squealing breaks and balding tires etc.

I am also not looking forward to the system transitioning from "big experiment, burn money to make it good" to "established business unit, tweak it to death for incrementally more money / personal promotion." We're still in the honeymoon period and I very much expect to hate Waymo in 10 or 15 years when they reach a steady state.

What levers are there, really? Waymo has a monopoly and it seems like they will for a while, so they have a lot of power, but all I really see them doing is making it expensive. Anything that makes the experience worse takes away from their ability to take market share away from Uber/Lyft.

Re: Waymo Safety Impact

#247

Post by fc417fc802 »

0x3f wrote: post #119
shawabawa3 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully if they ever go to Sri Lanka they get localised tuning because I was surprised to find out flashing your lights over there doesn't mean "go ahead", it means "if you don't get out of my way I will ram you"

I hate the countries that do this because it doesn't even make sense as a signal. We already have a horn. They are wasting a channel!

It also doesn't make sense because "get out of my way or I will ram you" is the default state of operating a motor vehicle. Not the goal but the physical reality of it.

Re: Waymo Safety Impact

#248

Post by Animats »

gfody wrote: post #51
mtklein wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am also not looking forward to the system transitioning from "big experiment, burn money to make it good" to "established business unit, tweak it to death for incrementally more money / personal promotion." We're still in the honeymoon period and I very much expect to hate Waymo in 10 or 15 years when they reach a steady state.

enshitification should be a new certainty along with death and taxes

That worries me.

Self-driving vehicles need aircraft-type maintenance. Yet there's nothing like the FAA to enforce a minimum equipment list, maintenance intervals, or signoffs by approved mechanics.

Is there a scratch or chip in the scanner dome? Are both the primary and backup steering actuators working? Is there any damage to the vehicle fender sensors? Is dispatch allowed with some redundant components not working? If so, for how long?

Here's the FAA's Minimum Equipment List for single-engine aircraft.[1] For each item, you can see if it has to be working to take off, and, if not, how long is allowed to fix it. There's nothing like that for self-driving land vehicles.

What's the fleet going to look like at 8 years of wear and tear?

[1] https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/MMEL_SE_Rev_2_Draft....

Re: Waymo Safety Impact

#249

Post by fc417fc802 »

gozucito wrote: post #221
rafaelmn wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

13x compared to what ? The average driver is such a bullshit statistic - accidents are highly correlated with stuff like alcohol/drugs/lack of sleep/lack of experience/physical issues, then the other huge behavioral factor distraction and driving style, and on top of that car performance matters a lot too. I don't see any attempt to correct for that in their "human benchmark". Heck the least they could have done is c…

Is it a bullshit stat though? it's not like you or I can go to a different dimension where all drivers are healthy, fully awake, undistracted, sober, competent, etc.

You don't need to. You just need to be in good condition yourself and actually paying attention. Professional delivery drivers routinely achieve seemingly absurd mileages per incident.

Re: Waymo Safety Impact

#250

Post by hattmall »

jjmarr wrote: post #53
jedberg wrote: post #3

Anecdotally, both from riding in them and walking/driving next to/around them, this feels obvious. They never get distracted. Sure, they sometimes make mistakes, but the mistakes are never "I didn't see that". They see better than humans in all cases (where they operate). They react faster than humans. The one case where they hit a child, it was because the child jumped in front of the car. And they showed that they…

Waymo saved my life in LA. When I visited LA, I rode in a Waymo going the speed limit in the right lane on a very busy street. The Waymo approached an intersection where it had the right of way, when suddenly a car ignored its stop sign and drove into the road. In less than a second, the Waymo moved into the left lane and kept going. I didn't even realize what was happening until after it was over. Most human drivers…

> Only a robot could've safely swerved into another lane and avoid the crash entirely.

Do you drive a lot? I feel like humans take evasive actions like this all the time.

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