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Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

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Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#551

Post by headsman771 »

lwkl wrote: post #418
jeduardo wrote: post #347

The "protective waiting period" of 24h is what kills it. For people like me, who rely more and more every day on OSS apps not necessarily in the Play Store, installing a new phone will mean waiting a full day for almighty Google to allow me to do so. It reminds me of the same annoyance of carrier phone unlocks. I wonder how this will play out in the phones coming out of the Motorola+GrapheneOS partnership.

A minuscule amount of nerds being slightly annoyed is definitely worth when it hinders scammers from ruining a persons live.

No, it is not. This is moving the goalposts. The original issue is developer verification. No appreciable harm prevention can or will come from forcing devs to identify themselves.

That's because most fraud uses social tactics and LEGITIMATE tools/software.

Impinging on my property rights cannot and will not protect fraud victims.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#552

Post by headsman771 »

freefaler wrote: post #513
goodusername wrote: post #360

Although I'm slightly relieved there is a way out of Googles verification system, it's still pretty wild if you compare this to installing software on a Windows pc. I'm sure Microsoft is heading in the same direction with Windows, but today its still "only" a few confirmations to install anything. This will sadly still put a major damper on adoption of open source apps, while giving a false sense of security that app…

Apple has been doing it for years not allowing "unsigned" software to be installed using the same "for the safety of the user" even against the user's wishes.

And they should remain the outlier.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#553

Post by userbinator »

_cenw wrote: post #543
userbinator wrote: post #536

Yet more reasons to keep using an old rooted Android for as long as possible and contribute to any efforts that make it easier to do so. I suspect the reason Android become dominant was the ease of modding and the community that created, and now they're trying to turn it into another authoritarian walled-garden like Apple. To paraphrase the famous Torvalds: "Google, fuck you!" "Those who give up freedom for security…

This comment makes no sense to me. As an individual user, opting out takes 24 hours and is much easier than rooting. Either your criticism is that this is prohibitive for too many users who aren't likely to care enough to ever root their phone (which might be fair, but your response doesn't fit) or it is that Google is locking down the ecosystem for some nefarious purpose (they're evidently not).

or it is that Google is locking down the ecosystem for some nefarious purpose (they're evidently not).

Most of the comments here seem to agree that they are. Some people have clearly been so brainwashed that they can't figure it out.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#554

Post by userbinator »

basilikum wrote: post #333

A lot of people here are looking for compromises. Any compromise on this means giving ground to Google's monopoly and the war on open computing and ultimately freedom. This is exactly what Google intended. This is why they started off by announcing completely removing device owner chosen installs (this is not side loading! It's simply installing.) and announced only apps allowed by Google would be available for insta…

Fortunately older versions of Android, especially rooted ones, won't be affected.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#555

Post by NicuCalcea »

rtkwe wrote: post #35
astra1701 wrote: post #14

This is going to hurt legitimate sideloading way more than actually necessary to reduce scams: - Must enable developer mode -- some apps (e.g., banking apps) will refuse to operate and such when developer mode is on, and so if you depend on such apps, I guess you just can't sideload? - One-day (day!!!) waiting period to activate (one-time) -- the vast majority of people who need to sideload something will probably no…

> - Must enable developer mode -- some apps (e.g., banking apps) will refuse to operate and such when developer mode is on, and so if you depend on such apps, I guess you just can't sideload? What apps are those? I've yet to run into any of my banking apps that refuse to run with developer mode enabled. I've seen a few that do that for rooted phones but that's a different story. I've been running android for a decade…

One of my banking apps didn't even run if I had accessibility settings turned on. I've since closed my account with them, just because of that.

The amount of control we've given corporations over our computers is incredibly disappointing.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#556

Post by fsniper »

MishaalRahman wrote: post #40
astra1701 wrote: post #14

This is going to hurt legitimate sideloading way more than actually necessary to reduce scams: - Must enable developer mode -- some apps (e.g., banking apps) will refuse to operate and such when developer mode is on, and so if you depend on such apps, I guess you just can't sideload? - One-day (day!!!) waiting period to activate (one-time) -- the vast majority of people who need to sideload something will probably no…

>- Must enable developer mode -- some apps (e.g., banking apps) will refuse to operate and such when developer mode is on, and so if you depend on such apps, I guess you just can't sideload? Hi, I'm the community engagement manager @ Android. It's my understanding that you don't have to keep developer options enabled after you enable the advanced flow. Once you make the change on your device, it's enabled. If you tur…

I see the chosen language of "certain unregistered applications" (I suppose company mandated) already hints on the goal of control aspect. I want to deploy apps on my device. They are my apps, it’s my device, and I should not be required to ask for permission to do so.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#557

Post by jjulius »

egeres wrote: post #500
armadyl wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GrapheneOS phones are still an option, it’s unaffected by these rules.

They have terrible support for banking apps and any app that needs play integrity

Does/do your bank/s absolutely always require you to use an app? Is there a desktop/website that you can use? Do they have a brick and mortar location?

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#558

Post by mysteria »

notrealyme123 wrote: post #258
mzajc wrote: post #2

tl;dr: - You need to enable developer mode - You need to click through a few scare dialogs - You need to wait 24h once I wonder how long this will last before they lock it down further. There was a lot of pushback this time around and they still ended up increasing the temperature of the metaphorical boiling frog. It still seems like they're pushing towards the Apple model where those who don't want to self-dox and/o…

its so obvious what the real goal is. No sideloading. Period. But nice of them to show their intentions while still giving time to leave.

I mean the writing's on the wall, they just don't want to do it all at once to avoid backlash. I wouldn't be surprised if they kill sideloading completely several years down the road.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#559

Post by fc417fc802 »

anonym29 wrote: post #460
dataflow wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the parent or agreeing/disagreeing with them, but to your question: if you get creative, there are a lot of things you could do, some more unorthodox than others. Tongue-in-cheek example, just to get the point across: instead of calling it Developer Mode, call it "Scam mode (dangerous)". Require pressing a button that says "Someone might be scamming me right now." Then require the user to type (not paste) in a lo…

The people falling for social engineering now won't be protected by this either. You could gate the functionality behind verification of an anti-scam awareness and education training and certification course, scammers would coach people through the entire course and the verification step, and people would still be victimized.

That's unfortunate if true but it isn't a convincing argument to force the rest of society to live in proverbial padded cells. There's a minimum bar here. Some people probably shouldn't have online accounts and aren't responsible enough to manage their own finances. The rest of us are (hopefully at least marginally) functional adults.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#560

Post by _cenw »

userbinator wrote: post #553
_cenw wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment makes no sense to me. As an individual user, opting out takes 24 hours and is much easier than rooting. Either your criticism is that this is prohibitive for too many users who aren't likely to care enough to ever root their phone (which might be fair, but your response doesn't fit) or it is that Google is locking down the ecosystem for some nefarious purpose (they're evidently not).

or it is that Google is locking down the ecosystem for some nefarious purpose (they're evidently not). Most of the comments here seem to agree that they are. Some people have clearly been so brainwashed that they can't figure it out.

Yeah, that must be it. Everyone who doesn't agree with my simple world view is brainwashed. On the website that's 50% LLM glazing now.

Yeah I think I'm out of here.

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