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Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

arstechnica.com

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Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#531

Post by igregoryca »

bhhaskin wrote: post #444
SchemaLoad wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is immense pressure to stop online scams which are draining old people of their life savings. The whole flow from the article seems entirely based around letting power users install what they want while being able to break the flow of a scammer guiding a clueless person in to installing malware. It is promising that Google has avoided just turning off sideloading but still put measures in place to protect peopl…

Why is it on Google to stop this and not the banks?

What can Bank X do to stop phone malware from scraping the user's session token from the Bank X app or website?

Yes, banks should (and sometimes do) double- and triple-check with you before allowing large transfers/withdrawals, but scammers know how to coach their victims past this. Speaking from experience.

(I also don't fully agree this is Google's responsibility, and I am not happy about this development. But there are legitimate points in favor of outsourcing the question of "will this software do nefarious things" to some kind of trusted signing authority.)

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#532

Post by basilikum »

Aachen wrote: post #369
basilikum wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an idea, what about letting me install on my own device whatever I want? This is ridiculous. Google is trying to dismantle the concept of ownership and personal autonomy. Do not give them any ground.

I'm surprised but happy to see you and so many others here saying this. In recent years it seemed like this 'hacker' community was all about Apple devices, but now that Google is going partway in the same direction, people aren't all just taking it. Do you think there's two groups, and the people that cared simply went with Android and so there was never this outcry about installing free software on iOS, or that this…

iPhone users generally decided against owning the pocket computer full of sensors — that they carry around with them everywhere, put all their private data into, that they use to participate in society and that they use to inform themselves — when they bought an iPhone. Some of these people just do not see a smartphone as a computer but as a limited purpose device and do have an actual computer that they care to own. Most do not.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#533

Post by wat10000 »

grishka wrote: post #371
wat10000 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartphones and the internet are really useful and convenient. Even if we could make it work, it seems quite rude to say that people should be excluded from it because we can't be bothered to make it safe. Consider an older technology that became fundamental to much of daily life a century or two ago: writing. After a few millennia where literacy was a specialized skill, we pretty quickly transitioned to a society wh…

Some people don't want to be taught about some things because they don't care enough about them. I was told a story as a kid about a grandma that didn't want to learn to read and write. It's the same thing here — there are people who don't want a smartphone. They were just fine with an old cell phone that could only call and text, but then the society forced them to buy a smartphone, so they did, but they still don't…

I mean, too bad. You don’t want to learn to read and write? You have to anyway.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#534

Post by TGower »

This seems like a good solution that will put a sizeable dent in scam success rates while not actually removing options for developers and power users. The added friction will make some people bounce off F-Droid and the likes which is unfortunate, but the wins here in scam prevention are much bigger than the losses in onboarding power users.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#535

Post by basilikum »

thin_carapace wrote: post #488
basilikum wrote: post #333

A lot of people here are looking for compromises. Any compromise on this means giving ground to Google's monopoly and the war on open computing and ultimately freedom. This is exactly what Google intended. This is why they started off by announcing completely removing device owner chosen installs (this is not side loading! It's simply installing.) and announced only apps allowed by Google would be available for insta…

im just as much of a hater of this as the next guy, because i depend on custom apks for work sometimes. pushing custom apks over adb is apparently going to be fine, so if that holds true, i dont care about this. at the end of the day, buying an android phone is buying a google device. i dont get the righteousness here. wouldnt this energy be better spent on discussing how we could make a new open source os to rival t…

It's a pretty dire situation. There are two major options. iOS is iOS. Android is at least somewhat open and Google free Android actually exists.

The problem is that you often need a smartphone running either Android or iOS to participate in modern life. Unfortunately when running Android many apps that one might be more or less forced to use do not just require AOSP, but expect the presence of the proprietary Google services malware.

If we want to create an independent mobile OS AOSP might actually be a good start. We're just faced with a world that is actively harmful to people having control over their device and data.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#536

Post by userbinator »

Yet more reasons to keep using an old rooted Android for as long as possible and contribute to any efforts that make it easier to do so. I suspect the reason Android become dominant was the ease of modding and the community that created, and now they're trying to turn it into another authoritarian walled-garden like Apple. To paraphrase the famous Torvalds: "Google, fuck you!"

"Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither."

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#537

Post by stavros »

tavavex wrote: post #271

The part in the flow where you select between allowing app installs for 7 days or forever is a glimpse into the future. That toggle shows the thought process that's going on at Google. I can bet that a few versions down the line, the "Not recommended" option of allowing installs indefinitely will become so not recommended that they'll remove it outright. Then shrink the 7 day window to 3 days or less. Or only give us…

I hope the EU cracks down on them like they did with Apple.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#538

Post by ceejayoz »

semolino wrote: post #524
ceejayoz wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but what's "essential"?

Being able to decide yourself the software that is allowed to run on the hardware you own.

But you have that ability. There's a one-off 24 hour wait.

You have a similar wait if you get it shipped to you from Amazon.

Is the instant gratification essential?

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#539

Post by userbinator »

andai wrote: post #335
observationist wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"PLEASE DRINK VERIFICATION CAN TO CONTINUE"

Context: https://files.catbox.moe/eqg0b2.png I think they later made a Black Mirror episode along these lines. "Resume viewing... Resume viewing..."

That meme was 13 years ago.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#540

Post by budududuroiu »

lucasay wrote: post #81

The goal seems to be breaking the real-time guidance scammers rely on. 24h probably works, but it feels like a heavy tradeoff for legit users.

iOS was supposed to prevent phone theft by making phones brickable through iCloud.

Now, phone thieves just ask you at knifepoint or gunpoint to log out of iCloud

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