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Magic keywords on Google and the consequences of tailoring results

gabrielweinberg.com

31–40 of 56 posts

Re: Magic keywords on Google and the consequences of tailoring results

#31

I'm happy to give more context on this. Some people don't put all their information needs into a single query. For example, instead of searching for [iphone wikipedia] to find the iPhone page on Wikipedia, they'll do one search for [iphone] and then their next search will be [wikipedia]. Google tries to help with those sorts of search sessions. For 0.3% of queries, if we see a search for a query A and then another se…

When you say the algorithm affects 0.3% of searches on google do you mean you select each query with a probability of 0.003 and pass it through this algo, or this algo is used 100% of the time when query A is followed by query B and these combinations account for 0.3% of all searches. If it is the latter then the fact that Obama is a magic keyword may mean that you are biasing a very high percentage of political searches. I am sure election involving an incumbent is an edge case which is very difficult to account for, but now that we know of this I hope google will try to correct the results to remove these specific accidental biases in the future.

Re: Magic keywords on Google and the consequences of tailoring results

#32

I'm tired of Gabriel Weinber telling me how bad Google is and therefor why I should use DDG instead. I'm happy with Google, I'm glad that when I search for "ruby" I get the programming language and that when my brother who works in jewelry searches for "ruby", he gets the gemstone. But seriously, tell me why DDG is awesome and unique, stop bashing the competition. It was fun at the beginning but now it's getting old.…

Hi, Gabriel Weinberg here. Sorry to offend you, as was of course not my intention.

I also of course don't think this is FUD at all. As far as I know, this is the first quantitative study of any kind about the filter bubble. I think it is hard to dismiss a concept out of hand when it hasn't even been effectively studied yet.

Also, the filter bubble it is not an effective marketing message because it requires too much education given it is a complicated subject no one knows about.

I also think tailoring can be just fine when it is opt-in and you are in complete control of your data.

As for DuckDuckGo, we've been telling people plenty about new stuff. Most recently we've been focused on our open-source plugin platform -- DuckDuckHack, http://duckduckhack.com/ -- where you can hack the search engine. And people have been doing it and making cool stuff, e.g. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=khan+math and lots of others: https://duckduckgo.com/goodies/.

Re: Magic keywords on Google and the consequences of tailoring results

#33
post #21

Just so that everyone is on the same page on what is being discussed here: this is a “study” by a competitor who can't implement personalised search and thus is spreading FUD to spin that as a differentiating advantage. It might be a good marketing strategy as he managed to get coverage by a couple of outlets during the elections frenzy in the US, but this "filter bubble" buzz-phrase is nonsense. Don't fear personali…

> by a competitor who can't implement personalised search

I believe the main idea behind using DDG is that it does not personalise, collect data, etc. It's a feature rather than a bug. Your attack on DDG seems to ignore some facts...

(see https://duckduckgo.com/about.html)

Re: Magic keywords on Google and the consequences of tailoring results

#34

I'm tired of Gabriel Weinber telling me how bad Google is and therefor why I should use DDG instead. I'm happy with Google, I'm glad that when I search for "ruby" I get the programming language and that when my brother who works in jewelry searches for "ruby", he gets the gemstone. But seriously, tell me why DDG is awesome and unique, stop bashing the competition. It was fun at the beginning but now it's getting old.…

Hi, Gabriel Weinberg here. Sorry to offend you, as was of course not my intention. I also of course don't think this is FUD at all. As far as I know, this is the first quantitative study of any kind about the filter bubble. I think it is hard to dismiss a concept out of hand when it hasn't even been effectively studied yet. Also, the filter bubble it is not an effective marketing message because it requires too much…

Thanks for your answer. I'm not offended, I'm just getting some kind of fatigue reading your anti-google posts. I think insinuating Google care more about Obama than Romney is bordering on FUD, like all of your anti "bubble" articles are always bordering on FUD or at least intend to scare people a bit. You can't deny you're kind of aware of that, aren't you?

It's been more than a year now since you're writing anti-google and anti-personalized results articles. It's getting old and people love personalized results. I don't think it should be made opt-in as I think Google (and any product) should make the best option opted-in by default, and personalized results is the best option as it offers the best experience for regular users. Why would they offer a worst experience by default? It doesn't make sense. Also, most people don't know or care enough about changing options so they'd just keep the worst experience by default.

Let's take my brother's example again, if he searched for "ruby" and got results about rails and ruby.rb first before the gemstone because they are more popular than ruby the gemstone, my brother would just be confused and may even waste time clicking on the rails link first. So what should google do, propose a link that would say "opt-in to have search results that actually make sense to you". Do you see how absurd and bad UX that would be?

People who care about these kinds of things already opted-out, in fact, the most paranoid hackers I know don't even use DDG, they use Google+Thor and turn JS/cookies off. It's cool that DDG is adding more features but that's not anything I care enough to use or I could just write a quick google chrome script that'd do the same.

Re: Magic keywords on Google and the consequences of tailoring results

#35
post #21

Just so that everyone is on the same page on what is being discussed here: this is a “study” by a competitor who can't implement personalised search and thus is spreading FUD to spin that as a differentiating advantage. It might be a good marketing strategy as he managed to get coverage by a couple of outlets during the elections frenzy in the US, but this "filter bubble" buzz-phrase is nonsense. Don't fear personali…

I don't fear personalized results, I just don't like them. I switched to DDG because google results have been getting progressively worse and worse for quite some time. Rather than jump through hoops to try to convince google to just search for what I asked instead of what it wants to infer I meant to ask, I just use a search engine that does what I ask it to.

Re: Magic keywords on Google and the consequences of tailoring results

#36

I'm trying to decide how concerned I should be about Obama being a magic keyword and Romney not. On the one hand, Obama has been president for nearly four years; the number of searches for him will have been high and consistent. On the other hand, Google is so central to information flow today, having it decide which candidate should get special treatment is disturbing. I'm mollified somewhat that the Obama magic res…

Google sees how people followup queries over time. So they know the relative frequencies of the four distinct progressions:

  [Obama], [Iran], [Obama Iran]
  [Obama Iran]
  [Romney], [Iran], [Romney Iran]
  [Romney Iran]
The triggering could be as simple as the fact that {[Obama], [Iran], [Obama Iran]} happens more often than {[Romney], [Iran], [Romney Iran]}.

And that difference could be because people searching one path are slightly more likely to keep refining simple queries ("try, try again"), versus other people more likely to combine-up-front ("measure twice, cut once").

Re: Magic keywords on Google and the consequences of tailoring results

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, Gabriel Weinberg here. Sorry to offend you, as was of course not my intention. I also of course don't think this is FUD at all. As far as I know, this is the first quantitative study of any kind about the filter bubble. I think it is hard to dismiss a concept out of hand when it hasn't even been effectively studied yet. Also, the filter bubble it is not an effective marketing message because it requires too much…

Thanks for your answer. I'm not offended, I'm just getting some kind of fatigue reading your anti-google posts. I think insinuating Google care more about Obama than Romney is bordering on FUD, like all of your anti "bubble" articles are always bordering on FUD or at least intend to scare people a bit. You can't deny you're kind of aware of that, aren't you? It's been more than a year now since you're writing anti-go…

why do we have to have an assumption that personalised means doing so in a negative way like enforcing a political affiliation? perhaps the engine can be clever enough to realise that some things like localised weather are a reasonable personalisation, whereas politics are more dangerous and should be less personalised.

it seems to me that both google and ddg have problems here, ddg in not personalising at all, and google in personalising things that really shouldn't be.

Re: Magic keywords on Google and the consequences of tailoring results

#38

I'm tired of Gabriel Weinber telling me how bad Google is and therefor why I should use DDG instead. I'm happy with Google, I'm glad that when I search for "ruby" I get the programming language and that when my brother who works in jewelry searches for "ruby", he gets the gemstone. But seriously, tell me why DDG is awesome and unique, stop bashing the competition. It was fun at the beginning but now it's getting old.…

Hi, Gabriel Weinberg here. Sorry to offend you, as was of course not my intention. I also of course don't think this is FUD at all. As far as I know, this is the first quantitative study of any kind about the filter bubble. I think it is hard to dismiss a concept out of hand when it hasn't even been effectively studied yet. Also, the filter bubble it is not an effective marketing message because it requires too much…

Hi Gabriel. Glad you responded here!

I've been generally curious about DDG for awhile now and I'm still trying to figure out why I should make a switch. If I understand correctly; DDG is trying to solve a problem in internet search so that people can't find things easier on the internet without sacrificing knowledge about one's self or behaviors, and your organization believes that that problem is largely due to the opt-out nature (or rather how you are automatically opt-in'd to everything) of Google's platform.

Also, the filter bubble it is not an effective marketing message because it requires too much education given it is a complicated subject no one knows about.

I guess, I, like many others who have expressed interest, don't see the problems with this. More commonly, I can't say my mother or my boss or anyone else I know is encountering this as a problem or a challenge. I'm happy to be wrong.

I find this whole topic absolutely fascinating, especially after having recently read Nudge by Richard Thaler, which basically is a whole book which talks about the value of libertarian paternalism. In other words, how opt-out choice architecture can be much more suitable than having completely free choice. Would love to know your thoughts. Great blog, this is fascinating stuff!

Re: Magic keywords on Google and the consequences of tailoring results

#39
post #31

I'm happy to give more context on this. Some people don't put all their information needs into a single query. For example, instead of searching for [iphone wikipedia] to find the iPhone page on Wikipedia, they'll do one search for [iphone] and then their next search will be [wikipedia]. Google tries to help with those sorts of search sessions. For 0.3% of queries, if we see a search for a query A and then another se…

When you say the algorithm affects 0.3% of searches on google do you mean you select each query with a probability of 0.003 and pass it through this algo, or this algo is used 100% of the time when query A is followed by query B and these combinations account for 0.3% of all searches. If it is the latter then the fact that Obama is a magic keyword may mean that you are biasing a very high percentage of political sear…

The solution for most of these sorts of things is just to refresh the data more quickly. Lots of queries, particularly head queries, are pretty stable in their characteristics over time. For a system that isn't absolutely critical to getting the query correct it's perniciously seductive to think that you can just push out the data once, then refresh it every quarter or so.

We used to have a problem with spelling where some news event would make a person with an uncommon name famous, but google would mistakenly correct it to a more common but incorrect name just because the spelling system hadn't ever seen this person's name before. We've fixed that issue and many other freshness related things: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/giving-you-fresher-mo... but this is an ongoing area of focus throughout a lot of our systems.

It's an interesting problem because for many things recomputing the data faster will only fix a handful of queries, so from a raw impact standpoint hardly seems worth it. However those queries end up being ones that are in the news and related to things that people care a lot about.

Re: Magic keywords on Google and the consequences of tailoring results

#40

Most of the stuff discussed in this post didn't bug me, but then I got to this part: As the Wall Street Journal confirmed in its own study, Google has been significantly altering its search results to highlight Obama-related results, but not Romney-related results (more on that later). These Obama-related results are being inserted because obama is a magic keyword on Google. A magic keyword is a search that can trans…

I completely disagree, and I suspect a lot of Google users do too. Anyway you can turn off those features from here: https://support.google.com/accounts/bin/answer.py?hl=en&...
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