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Astral to Join OpenAI

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Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#771

Post by LtWorf »

kjksf wrote: post #253
petcat wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest scam the mega-clouds and the Githubs ever pulled was convincing open source developers that the GPL was somehow out of vogue and BSD/MIT/Apache was better. All so they could just vacuum it all up and resell it with impunity.

I don't remember GitHub or Amazon advocating MIT over GPL. Feel free to prove me wrong by pointing out this massive amount of advocacy from "mega-clouds" that changed people's minds. The ads, the mailing list posts, social media comments. Anything at all you can trace to "mega-clouds" execs.

Does the CEO of github count? https://youtu.be/-bAAlPXB2-c?t=180

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#772

Post by smilekzs »

cyanydeez wrote: post #674
captainbland wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue is that LLMs are a cash problem as much as they are a technical problem. Consumer hardware architectures are still pretty unfriendly to running models which are actually competitive to useful models so if you want to even do inference on a model that's going to reliably give you decent results you're basically in enterprise territory. Unless you want to do it really slowly. The issue that I see is t…

Consumer hardware is there. grab a mac or AMD395+ and Qwen coder and Cline or Open code and you're getting 80% of the real efficiency.

New Strix Halo (395+) user here. It is very librating to be able to "just" load the larger open-weight MoEs. At this param count class, bigger is almost always better --- my own vibe check confirms this, but obviously this is not going to be anywhere close to the leading cost-optimized closed-weight models (Flash / Sonnet).

The tradeoff with these unified LPDDR machines is compute and memory throughput. You'll have to live with the ~50 token/sec rate, and compact your prefix aggressively. That said, I'd take the effortless local model capability over outright speed any day.

Hope the popularity of these machines could prompt future models to offer perfect size fits: 80 GiB quantized on 128 GiB box, 480 GiB quantized on 512 GiB box, etc.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#773

Post by gehsty »

They should be allowed to make money from their work. Their work is MIT licensed, if it goes south it is rescuable by the community.

Things come and go, let’s not beat up some dudes who made some cool stuff, made everyone’s lives easier and then sold up. There is a timeline where this makes UV / python better.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#774

Post by bmitc »

rtpg wrote: post #670
theptip wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree uv is great but let’s not get carried away here. Poetry is good, pip was fine for many use-cases after they added native lock files.

Poetry and friends are so bad that many people continued just using pip -r requirements.txt despite knowing about this other stuff Poetry having users isn’t the metric for success. pip having way less users is.

How is uv awesome and Poetry so bad? They do basically the same things except Astral re-invents the wheel but only part way instead of just relying on the existing tools. uv is fast. As far as I can tell, there's hardly any difference in functionality except for it also replacing PyEnv, which I never use anyway.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#775

Post by bmitc »

dcre wrote: post #469
throwaway5752 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they don't have incentive to cultivate developer goodwill. They are monetizing replacing developers everywhere. That is the trillion-dollar valuation. They have the opposite incentive.

They are not. A very large proportion of their revenue comes from developers. A large proportion of their marketing and product work is aimed at developers. You have to work really hard to not see this. Just look at what Altman and Brockman tweet about. https://xcancel.com/gdb https://xcancel.com/sama/

> Just look at what Altman and Brockman tweet about.

Those two are pathological liars, so what they write about means very, very little.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#776

Post by bmitc »

gehsty wrote: post #773

They should be allowed to make money from their work. Their work is MIT licensed, if it goes south it is rescuable by the community. Things come and go, let’s not beat up some dudes who made some cool stuff, made everyone’s lives easier and then sold up. There is a timeline where this makes UV / python better.

That's all fine. I don't think anyone is upset they got purchased. It's clear it was heading that direction anyway. What everyone is upset about is that they were purchased by OpenAI, who isn't exactly a trustworthy company.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#777

Post by bmitc »

6thbit wrote: post #711
seanplusplus wrote: post #316

I'm into this. Anthropic acquiring Bun, now OpenAI acquiring Astral. Both show the big labs recognize that great AI coding tools require great developer tooling, and they are willing to pay for it rather than build inferior alternatives. Good outcome for the teams. Not exactly a great look for the "AGI is right around the corner" crowd — if the labs had it, they would not need to buy software from humans.

This wasn't a software acquisition at all. They were already able to use Astral's software just like anyone else. They wanted a good dev-tools team so that's what they bought. > the Astral team will join the Codex team at OpenAI and over time, we’ll explore deeper integrations that allow Codex to interact more directly with the tools developers already use

> we’ll explore deeper integrations that allow Codex to interact more directly with the tools developers already use

Gross.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#779

Post by rtpg »

bmitc wrote: post #774
rtpg wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poetry and friends are so bad that many people continued just using pip -r requirements.txt despite knowing about this other stuff Poetry having users isn’t the metric for success. pip having way less users is.

How is uv awesome and Poetry so bad? They do basically the same things except Astral re-invents the wheel but only part way instead of just relying on the existing tools. uv is fast. As far as I can tell, there's hardly any difference in functionality except for it also replacing PyEnv, which I never use anyway.

uv assuming your local Python is busted to hell and back helps a lot with isolation.

Poetry's CLI would often, for me, just fall over and crash. Crashing a lot is not a fundamental problem in the sense you can fix the bugs, but hey I'm not hitting uv crashes.

pipenv was even worse in terms of just hanging during package resolution. Tools that hang are not tools you want in a CI pipeline!

The end result: `uv run` I expect to work. `pipenv` or `poetry` calls I have to assume don't work, have to put retries into CI pipelines and things like that.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#780

Post by mcdonje »

saghm wrote: post #745
mcdonje wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google contributed tons of developer hours for things like bug fixes, without which the project might not be where it is today. There are examples of foundations or other similar entities paying developers, like Linux, SQLite, even Zig. Maybe the difference is some projects rely on core contributors more because external contributions are more restricted in some way. But sure, the entire open source model doesn't wor…

There's a wide gap between the arguments "the open source model doesn't work" and "the open source model failed to produce anything as good as uv after a couple decades of python tooling churn". The latter is why people are understandably unsure of where things go from here.

Seems like you're responding to the wrong person. The person I replied to said the open source model doesn't work. Nobody said the thing in your second quote.

I get the point you're making, but the way you introduced it isn't conducive to productive conversation.

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