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Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

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Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#491

Post by storus »

segmondy wrote: post #472
grishka wrote: post #87

At this point I'm convinced that there's something deeply wrong with how our society treats technology. Ruining Android for everyone to try to maybe help some rather technologically-hopeless groups of people is the wrong solution. It's unsustainable in the long run. Also, the last thing this world needs right now is even more centralization of power. Especially around yet another US company. People who are unwilling…

open source alternative, at first it's going to suck. but over time it will win. imagine how miserable we would be if all we had was windows and osx. but we have linux. we are now at such crossroads were the choice is android and apple, we need a free alternative. much sooner than most realize the threat to freedom from big corps, govt and others will be so big that we would wish to have a free mobile OS. mobile is n…

Not necessarily; coding agents might help to accelerate getting to Android/iOS feature parity much faster than what was the case with Linux.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#492

Post by silver_sun »

nullc wrote: post #127
silver_sun wrote: post #34

It's a little inconvenient for someone setting up a new phone to have to wait a full day to install unregistered apps. But while I can't speak for others, it's a price I'm personally willing to pay to make the types of scams they mention much less effective. The perfect is the enemy of the good.

On what basis do you believe that it will meaningfully reduce the dollars lost or persons harmed by fraud, as opposed to simple shuffling around the exact means used?

Well maybe nothing ultimately changes. Maybe we end up in a world where Android users have to wait 24 hours to change a setting so that their devices will install any apps they want, from then on with no further delays. But this seems to me like a relatively low cost for a potentially huge benefit for victims.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#493

Post by storus »

The constant sociopathic nudging from Google to do this or that to use something that was absolutely normal before or to enable something I didn't want and slowly removing reasonable options in favor of their dark pattern preferences was what made me to degoogle ~10 years ago, and they just seem to continue on the march to their dark side unconcerned.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#494

Post by silver_sun »

Zak wrote: post #394
MishaalRahman wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- Must enable developer mode -- some apps (e.g., banking apps) will refuse to operate and such when developer mode is on, and so if you depend on such apps, I guess you just can't sideload? Hi, I'm the community engagement manager @ Android. It's my understanding that you don't have to keep developer options enabled after you enable the advanced flow. Once you make the change on your device, it's enabled. If you tur…

I don't think Google should be changing Android this way at all, and fear that it will later be used for evil. That said, I thought of an improvement: Allow a toggle with no waiting period during initial device setup. The user is almost certainly not being guided by a scammer when they're first setting up their device, so this addresses the concern Google claims is driving the verification requirement. I'll be pretty…

> Allow a toggle with no waiting period during initial device setup

I like this idea in principle but I think it could become a workaround that the same malicious entities would be willing to exploit, by just coercing their victims to "reset" their phones to access that toggle.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#496

Post by array_key_first »

staticassertion wrote: post #432
lukeschlather wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All apps should be open source and subject to verification by nonprofit repositories like F-Droid which have scary warnings on software that does undesirable things. For-profit appstores like Google and Apple that allow closed source software are too friendly to scams and malware.

That's absurd.

It's also true, the best way to audit software is source-code and behavior analysis. Google and Apple do surprisingly minimal amounts of auditing of the software they allow on the Play Store and App Store, mostly because they can't, by design. It should shock absolutely nobody then that those distribution methods are much more at risk of malware.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#497

Post by lelandfe »

tavavex wrote: post #271

The part in the flow where you select between allowing app installs for 7 days or forever is a glimpse into the future. That toggle shows the thought process that's going on at Google. I can bet that a few versions down the line, the "Not recommended" option of allowing installs indefinitely will become so not recommended that they'll remove it outright. Then shrink the 7 day window to 3 days or less. Or only give us…

An actual example of this lives in the Gmail iOS app. Click a link in an email and every x days, a sheet appears: https://imgur.com/a/nlGS4Yk

1. Chrome

2. Google

3. Default browser app (w/unfamiliar generic logo)

They removed the option for Safari some time in the last two years; here's how it looked in 2024: https://imgur.com/1iBVFfc

And the cherry on top of dark UX patterns: an unchecked toggle rests at the bottom. "Ask me which app to use every time." You cannot stop getting these.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#498

Post by passwordoops »

wswin wrote: post #387
tavavex wrote: post #271

The part in the flow where you select between allowing app installs for 7 days or forever is a glimpse into the future. That toggle shows the thought process that's going on at Google. I can bet that a few versions down the line, the "Not recommended" option of allowing installs indefinitely will become so not recommended that they'll remove it outright. Then shrink the 7 day window to 3 days or less. Or only give us…

what's your solution to combat scammers?

Like the ones constantly advertising across Google's plethora of platforms without any repercussions or possibility of recourse with Google? For my safety, of course.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#499

Post by I_am_uncreative »

Denatonium wrote: post #425
grishka wrote: post #87

At this point I'm convinced that there's something deeply wrong with how our society treats technology. Ruining Android for everyone to try to maybe help some rather technologically-hopeless groups of people is the wrong solution. It's unsustainable in the long run. Also, the last thing this world needs right now is even more centralization of power. Especially around yet another US company. People who are unwilling…

I fully agree. Similar to killing bacteria with antibiotics, Attempting to idiot-proof machinery only leads to the creation of idiot-proofing-resistant idiots. We need to move back to putting users back into full control. Machines (including computers) should ALWAYS respect the input of the user, even if the user is wrong. If a person shoots themself with a gun as a result of their incompetence, we don't fault the gu…

I was with you right up until "We need to get rid of ESC, ABS, AEB, etc.".

That is unreasonable. ABS, ESC, and AEB all exist to interpret what the driver intends. The driver does not intend for their wheels to lock up, that's why ABS exists, nor does the driver intend to skid. You can argue that AEB does not reflect the will of the driver, but it can also be disabled.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#500

Post by egeres »

armadyl wrote: post #410
bityard wrote: post #268

Welp, I guess my current Android phone will be my last one. At least half of the apps I use on a daily basis come from f-droid. This enforced 24-hour wait is simply not acceptable. Android has always been a far inferior overall user experience compared to iPhone. Android's _only_ saving grace was that I could put my own third-party open-source apps on it. There is nothing left keeping me on Android now. I'll probably…

GrapheneOS phones are still an option, it’s unaffected by these rules.

They have terrible support for banking apps and any app that needs play integrity
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