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Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

arstechnica.com

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Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#401

Post by kuschku »

SchemaLoad wrote: post #364
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could the technophobes please just buy different smartphones? If certain people want to opt in to locked down devices, I think that's okay. But please give me a device that lets me do whatever I want. (And still lets me participate in modern society—I can't live with a Linux phone). Apple's argument for locking down the iPhone but not the Mac has always been some variation of "Mac users are professionals and iPhones…

You can do that, there are custom roms and open source phones. The problem is banks are legally obligated a lot of the time to pay out for fraud and scams. So in response they won't allow you to run their software unless they can verify the compute environment.

So why can I access my bank account just fine via the website on my phone, but shouldn't be able to do the same via the app? Can't they offer at least a PWA version of the website for custom ROM users?

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#402

Post by EvanAnderson »

viktorcode wrote: post #259

Judging by the comments sideloading plays a major part in everyone's life. What apps do you sideload guys? Why those apps are not in a store?

Every non-stock app on my phone was installed from an APK directly downloaded from the manufacturer or open source developer's site / Github releases. I've never had a Google Play account and have never used any Android "app store".

I switched from iOS to Android about three years ago. I saved all the APKs for everything I installed (or updated). When I got a new phone last fall it was pleasantly like geting a new PC. I imported my SMS and contacts from my last backup, then installed all the apps I use and imported or manually set any settings I wanted to customize.

The biggest pain was having to manually logon the couple of sites I allow to keep persistent cookies since device owners aren't allowed to just import/export cookies from mobile Chrome.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#403

Post by parrellel »

pie_flavor wrote: post #393
tavavex wrote: post #271

The part in the flow where you select between allowing app installs for 7 days or forever is a glimpse into the future. That toggle shows the thought process that's going on at Google. I can bet that a few versions down the line, the "Not recommended" option of allowing installs indefinitely will become so not recommended that they'll remove it outright. Then shrink the 7 day window to 3 days or less. Or only give us…

[flagged]

I suppose the question is, who is actually willing to believe Google is going to deal in Good Faith. Why would anyone ever even begin to think that?

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#404

Post by monksy »

Find the email address of the CEO/board members. When you get this on your device. Let your thoughts be known to them with a screenshot. Feel free to use language that will make them feel dumb and sad. Don't expect them to understand logical arguments or pleas.

Companies get away from this because they distance themselves from their customers and they have systems to hide feedback.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#405

Post by rezonant »

tom1337 wrote: post #381
wlesieutre wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay verification fee to continue

so Apple then? They require you to pay the $99 yearly fee to sideload for more than 7 days

Which increases the limit to whatever time is left on your current payment period. After which the app will stop working and need to be reinstalled by an authenticated developer who has a current Apple Developer Subscription.

EDIT: Edited the above which previously said 90 days incorrectly. Not sure where my brain pulled that from but I posted the correct details here prior: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45743615

Notably if you install a month before your subscription expires you need to reinstall the app in 1 month.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#406

Post by lukeschlather »

wswin wrote: post #387
tavavex wrote: post #271

The part in the flow where you select between allowing app installs for 7 days or forever is a glimpse into the future. That toggle shows the thought process that's going on at Google. I can bet that a few versions down the line, the "Not recommended" option of allowing installs indefinitely will become so not recommended that they'll remove it outright. Then shrink the 7 day window to 3 days or less. Or only give us…

what's your solution to combat scammers?

All apps should be open source and subject to verification by nonprofit repositories like F-Droid which have scary warnings on software that does undesirable things. For-profit appstores like Google and Apple that allow closed source software are too friendly to scams and malware.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#407

Post by Aachen »

Evidlo wrote: post #121
MishaalRahman wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Developers, including non-US citizens, are forced to give Google their government ID to distribute apps. Developers can choose to not undergo verification, thereby remaining anonymous. The only change is that their applications will need to be installed via ADB and/or this new advanced flow on certified Android devices. Either way, you can still distribute your apps wherever you want. If you verify your identity, th…

My friend's little kid likes to make games that he and his friends can play. As far as I am aware, these apps don't require any permissions. Are apps like this more dangerous than browsing to a website? I thought they were entirely sandboxed from the rest of the device?

Not quite. You can do a lot of stuff that requires no permissions, or at least not ones that the user has to confirm (e.g. you get internet permission, sensor access, always run in the background etc. by default, but you do need to declare this in the manifest file iirc), which isn't possible on websites like that (a website will ask before it lets a site do limited things while you think the tab is closed)

Depending on your threat model, it might be mostly harmless

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#408

Post by daemin »

VladVladikoff wrote: post #276
grishka wrote: post #87

At this point I'm convinced that there's something deeply wrong with how our society treats technology. Ruining Android for everyone to try to maybe help some rather technologically-hopeless groups of people is the wrong solution. It's unsustainable in the long run. Also, the last thing this world needs right now is even more centralization of power. Especially around yet another US company. People who are unwilling…

>Ruining Android for everyone Are they really though? does the average person really care about side loading? I think we are in an echo chamber. I can't picture any of the people in my life installing things from outside of an app store on their phone. However I realize that's purely anecdotal, it would be nice to see actual statistics on this to have a more informed decision.

If you phrase it as "sideloading" then probably not, since it doesn't sound like something they might want to do, it also sounds difficult and technical. If you phrase it as installing your own software then it might garner some interest from the general populace, as who wouldn't want the option to install their desired software.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#409

Post by GeekyBear »

tom1337 wrote: post #381
wlesieutre wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay verification fee to continue

so Apple then? They require you to pay the $99 yearly fee to sideload for more than 7 days

Apple was clear that they were offering the safety of a walled garden from the start.

Apple didn't lie about supporting a user's freedom to run anything they like, only to execute a rug pull after they successfully drove the other open options out of the marketplace.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#410

Post by armadyl »

bityard wrote: post #268

Welp, I guess my current Android phone will be my last one. At least half of the apps I use on a daily basis come from f-droid. This enforced 24-hour wait is simply not acceptable. Android has always been a far inferior overall user experience compared to iPhone. Android's _only_ saving grace was that I could put my own third-party open-source apps on it. There is nothing left keeping me on Android now. I'll probably…

GrapheneOS phones are still an option, it’s unaffected by these rules.
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