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Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

arstechnica.com

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Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#301

Post by dandellion »

allreduce wrote: post #212
politelemon wrote: post #94

I'm not in agreement with most of you, hn. They've found a decent compromise that works for power users and the general population. Your status as a power user does not invalidate the need to help the more vulnerable. Having to wait a day for a one off isn't a big deal, if they kept it looser then you'd be shouting about the amount of scams that propagate on the platform.

This helping the vulnerable framing is naive at best. This is about an American ad company consolidating their power over what people can do with devices they bought and are reliant on daily. Helping the vulnerable should not involve that. If your only idea on how to help the vulnerable involves that, think of better ideas.

At some point we need to start wondering if it's not just naivete but intellectual dishonesty. The same American corporations that claim to be imposing draconian control measures to "protect the vulnerable" are, at the same time, exploiting those very same vulnerable people to the best of their ability. Take Google, they have no problem showing ads for scams in Youtube and Google Ads. There is mounting evidence that their recommendation algorithms for Youtube, shorts, etc. negatively affect mental health, especially youngest ones. But it makes them money, and they've zero interest in preventing that or changing it.

And it's not just Google, it's the m.o. of all large corporations. Another example is Epic Games, they advertise how they will fight in court against big companies like Google and Apple to defend their users. Yet they've gotten fined repeatedly for amounts in the millions, for predatory micro-transactions, and misleading minors into spending money without the consent of their parents.

Time and time again it is proven that everything these companies do, it's always for the benefit of their bottom line, and consideration for their users does not even factor into their considerations. This is no different, they want to push it because it will give them more control or make them money, and it either won't protect anyone, or that's just an unintended side effect but a good way to market it.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#302

Post by 2001zhaozhao »

I think the new solution is a good compromise.

The 7 days vs forever choice is still crappy and gives me a bit of bad vibes considering they are the ones that pulled the youtube promotions (shorts, games) you can never turn off forever, so there's the concern they will remove the forever option from Android in the future. But as long as they don't end up doing that, it's fine for me.

Also, I do think it would be a good idea to make an exception to the 24-hour wait time if the phone is new enough (e.g. onboarding steps were completed less than one day ago), and/or through some specific bypass method using ADB. Power users who get a new phone want to set it up with all their cool apps and trinkets right away, and it's not good user experience to have to use ADB to install every single sideloaded app. Meanwhile a a regular user getting scammed right after getting a new phone is statistically unlikely.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#303

Post by t_mahmood »

nolist_policy wrote: post #272
t_mahmood wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with bootloader unlocking isn't it? Ah, its not much, just an email away ... oh, not much it's email and a phone call away ... Just wait 7 days ... no, it's just a month, and only one device par account? What's wrong with it? You are overreacting Wait! Why you want to unlock your boot loader, only 0.000001% does it. You are abnormal, not the mass user Fool me once it's on you Fool me twice ... it's on me. We are…

You can buy a Pixel instead of a Xiaomi.

Why would I pay Google after this? I have gotten rid of Xiaomi a long time ago.

For now, I am rolling with my OnePlus 7 with LineageOS, till I find a phone that's not completely locked down. Yes, it's old, but it gets my job done. Once I am off all of Google's services, I'll probably get rid of Google in most part of my life.

As, someone who is a user from invite only Gmail, it's difficult, but necessary.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#304

Post by bloqs »

mx7zysuj4xew wrote: post #249
gkoberger wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I “get” technology so I understand how you got here. But this is the wrong take. I expect to go to a restaurant and not die from the food… and I want nothing to do with the inner workings of the kitchen. I just want to know any restaurant I go into will be safe. Society has made restaurants safe, either because of government pressure or it’s good for business. How is that not a fair ask for technology, too? We all ha…

Because no amount of safeguards put up by the restaurant is going to protect you from getting sick of you decide to empty a bottle of bleach into your meal.

This captures the issue well

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#305

Post by [deleted] »

hananova wrote: post #238
lucasay wrote: post #81

The goal seems to be breaking the real-time guidance scammers rely on. 24h probably works, but it feels like a heavy tradeoff for legit users.

Scammers will just start the process and call back the next day. There is an entire genre of scam relying on slowly building rapport and only cashing in once all the way at the end.

[deleted]

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#306

Post by izacus »

t_mahmood wrote: post #177
politelemon wrote: post #94

I'm not in agreement with most of you, hn. They've found a decent compromise that works for power users and the general population. Your status as a power user does not invalidate the need to help the more vulnerable. Having to wait a day for a one off isn't a big deal, if they kept it looser then you'd be shouting about the amount of scams that propagate on the platform.

Same with bootloader unlocking isn't it? Ah, its not much, just an email away ... oh, not much it's email and a phone call away ... Just wait 7 days ... no, it's just a month, and only one device par account? What's wrong with it? You are overreacting Wait! Why you want to unlock your boot loader, only 0.000001% does it. You are abnormal, not the mass user Fool me once it's on you Fool me twice ... it's on me. We are…

All Google Pixel phones still have unlockable and resignable bootloader.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#307

Post by kykat »

bityard wrote: post #268

Welp, I guess my current Android phone will be my last one. At least half of the apps I use on a daily basis come from f-droid. This enforced 24-hour wait is simply not acceptable. Android has always been a far inferior overall user experience compared to iPhone. Android's _only_ saving grace was that I could put my own third-party open-source apps on it. There is nothing left keeping me on Android now. I'll probably…

24-hour wait is a one time setup, I'd imagine that fdroid will keep working as usual after this super hidden don't enable me option is enabled.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#308

Post by skybrian »

grishka wrote: post #87

At this point I'm convinced that there's something deeply wrong with how our society treats technology. Ruining Android for everyone to try to maybe help some rather technologically-hopeless groups of people is the wrong solution. It's unsustainable in the long run. Also, the last thing this world needs right now is even more centralization of power. Especially around yet another US company. People who are unwilling…

No, you have that backwards. A society is judged by how it treats its least able members. Android devices are primarily for mainstream users, not us. Technically adept users are the minority and we can deal with a few hoops to customize our phones the way we like.

It's selfish to advocate against better protections for the least able people in the world just for our own convenience.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#309

Post by Kwpolska »

torben-friis wrote: post #210
politelemon wrote: post #94

I'm not in agreement with most of you, hn. They've found a decent compromise that works for power users and the general population. Your status as a power user does not invalidate the need to help the more vulnerable. Having to wait a day for a one off isn't a big deal, if they kept it looser then you'd be shouting about the amount of scams that propagate on the platform.

>Having to wait a day for a one off isn't a big deal It's my phone. It's my software. Period. The general population is deterred by burying a setting deep. Waiting is a dark pattern and we're not idiots.

Scammers can coerce people into ignoring warnings if they convince them their entire life savings are on the line. It's hard to do if you need to wait 24 hours before the setting unlocks.
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