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Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

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Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#191

Post by ethanrutherford »

nananana9 wrote: post #150
snoman wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that, if you directly assist someone violate a ToS, you can be held liable. Bad analogy but the getaway driver doesn’t need to enter the bank to be guilty in the robbery.

Surely there's no way that's true. The logical conclusion of that would be that every random ToS is a law that everyone must abide by, regardless of whether or not they've agreed to it.

By definition, it is exactly a law. It's known as business law. The ToS is a business contract which you must agree to if you wish to use the service. Violating terms of service is literally a breach of contract.

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#192

Post by siva7 »

hirako2000 wrote: post #170
siva7 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is well understood to be 'a loss leader' You have zero proof for this claim. It's like people read somewhere that stuff and keep spitting it out again and again without understanding..

If it wasn't the case, the Claude API pricing would be the same, $200 for unlimited use. But it's metered. We don't know if Claude Code bleeds money for every user that touches it. Probably not. But the different pricing is a strong enough clue that it's an appeal product with subsidized tokens consumption.

API is intended for a different audience - companies with a big pocket who aren't as price sensitive as private users. So the pricing will be different than for a private subscription.

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#193

Post by karmasimida »

awestroke wrote: post #114
karmasimida wrote: post #50

Just use GPT5.4, avoid the drama and it is a better model anyway

Not all of us enjoy being glazed mercilessly while getting subpar output

I have burnt billion of tokens in gpt 5.4 and I didn’t know what you are talking about

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#194

Post by nikcub »

827a wrote: post #98

I'm really struggling to understand how Anthropic is benefited by not allowing this. Its bad PR for no good reason. The only thing I can figure is that Claude Code is hemorrhaging money, they're too afraid to actually enforce reasonable token limits, and the only thing that's keeping it from totally bankrupting the company tomorrow is: controlling the harness and having the harness dynamically route toward Haiku or S…

This is analogous to when Google launched Gmail with 1GB of storage and then a bunch of third-party apps cropped up that took advantage of it to use it as a generic online file storage drive.

There was GMailFS[0] and Gmail Drive[1] - this is before S3, dropbox, and a time where web hosting would give you ~10MB or so of space.

Google updated their ToS and shut down accounts using their service in ways they weren't intended via these apps - because obviously the 1GB of storage was a loss-leader into Google's ecosystem (and it worked)

Same thing today - "unauthorized" third parties taking advantage of a loss-leading[2] deal - complete with similar trademark violations to boot[3].

Google have more cash to burn in the AI race so can be more forgiving today in how their codex plans are used. Anthropic are still a private company and can't.

[0] https://handwiki.org/wiki/GmailFS

[1] https://techcrunch.com/2005/07/31/profile-gmail-drive/

[2] it's a big q just how large a loss leader the max plans are considering a fixed harness, prompt caching etc. but point still stands. you're getting up to $5k of RRP tokens for $200

[3] Clawd Bot -> OpenClaw

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#195

Post by WhyNotHugo »

827a wrote: post #98

I'm really struggling to understand how Anthropic is benefited by not allowing this. Its bad PR for no good reason. The only thing I can figure is that Claude Code is hemorrhaging money, they're too afraid to actually enforce reasonable token limits, and the only thing that's keeping it from totally bankrupting the company tomorrow is: controlling the harness and having the harness dynamically route toward Haiku or S…

One possible factor is reinforcement training: by forcing users to use their own CLI, they gather usage and training data which serves as feedback training data for their own tools. Users operating with a different agent with different tool implementation and quirks might poison that data.

The sibling reply given by strictnein is very likely a factor.

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#196

Post by hirako2000 »

shimman wrote: post #92
noemit wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dario has stated multiple times he doesn't believe there is any value in open-weight models. Not surprised. This is not the behavior of an innovative company - it is fear-driven. They are seeing a rapidly shrinking moat.

The dude built a mass plagiarism machine and wants to now profit off of his mass plagiarism machine, of course he's going to have antidemocratic ideas regarding people + technology.

His engineers told him "I don't write code anymore. Claude writes the code, I edit it, I code around it".

In 6 months, people won't work anymore. They will all use my products, outsource the thinking, why bother.

Oh and open weight models have no value...

There is a paper out there showing 30% of CEOs/C-suite have some psychopath tendencies. Not sure if they even used the term narcissistic , but I would add delusional.

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#197

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

cedws wrote: post #180
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a company’s job to be hostile to competition

That’s a very ruthless American capitalist view. I would say a company’s job is to make the best product without resorting to cheap tricks.

Right because other capitalist countries have companies that make it easy for competition

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#198

Post by einr »

tim-star wrote: post #152
danny_codes wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This exactly. Kimi 2.5 has coding performance hardly discernible from Claude. The only way to maintain a business edge is to crush open source clients to force people into a closed ecosystem. Once there, create context moat where people are not in control of their own context data (cannot export it to open tooling). Maybe we can call it the Oracle play? It’ll be interesting to see if companies get tricked. I think it…

thats only because kimi 2.5 was trained using data stolen from claude. it wouldnt exist without riding claudes coat tails. none of the so called 'open source' models would

Boo hoo. Claude was trained using data stolen from the collective works of all of humanity. If someone does it faster and cheaper by skimming the cream off the top of Claude then surely that’s just a market efficiency in the thieves business?

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#199

Post by hirako2000 »

browningstreet wrote: post #160
awestroke wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they pay money for such crappy software?

This whole thread is people repeating wrong facts that have been clarified 100x in the previous threads on the same issue. I wonder why conversation can never progress. When a stake goes in the ground, it never ever comes out. FWIW OpenAI didn't buy OpenClaw.

And Nvidia didn't buy Groq.

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#200

Post by hirako2000 »

rvz wrote: post #174
mellosouls wrote: post #2

This and threatening OpenClaw (now at OpenAI), Anthropic really on a roll making friends in Open Source. Previously discussed I think: Anthropic Explicitly Blocking OpenCode (173 points, 157 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46625918

I guarantee you that Cursor will be next to be targeted by Anthropic. "Safety" is just complete control for them.

The irony given they hoped to get acquired.
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