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4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

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Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. I also grew up on 4chan because I didn’t have an involved parent, and I lived in the suburbs where finding friends to just “go outside and play” wasn’t an option. Consuming that content was genuinely hurtful and probably forever altered my psyche. I have the means and knowledge, in technical skill and life experience, to know how these things work, and protect my kids from that. Most people don’t.

Haven’t you considered that the fact you were exposed to these things made you who you are today am able to say that with conviction. If you had been shielded from the reality on human extremism you would not.

Vouched, because this was going to be my counterpoint as someone who had the same circumstances as the grandparent.

Despite the enormously heinous stuff I've seen on that site, it has made me a better writer, developed my critical thinking skills, and given me a perspective on the world and its people that wouldn't have existed without.

It also introduced me to many different things and developed my taste beyond measure.

The massive downside, that I suspect the grandparent still wrestles with, is integrating all of depravity of humankind into a coherent world view without falling into cognitive dissonance between the idealized and constructed world with an onslaught of information on the actual reality of it.

It's sort of like looking into the Epstein files and having to decide one's reaction to them:

- crushed by despair at the state of things leading to nihilism and depression

- deciding to ignore it all, and continuing to go on about one's life without integrating it

- acceptance, normalization, and corruption

- a secret fourth option that reaffirms you, using that news as fuel for whatever ends in the hope you can improve the world even if just a little bit, despite how ugly it is

And so on.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#132
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 4Chan operates in the US And the UK... each time it delivers there.

4Chan has blocked the entire UK IP range. They do not host any infrastructure there. They are bound by UK law exactly as much as they are bound by Venutian or Mars law.

> 4Chan has blocked the entire UK IP range.

And honestly this is more than they really should even have to do. I think it does go above their obligation. They're doing Offcom a favor here, they don't even have to figure out how to block it themselves.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#133
post #7
post #4

> "Companies – wherever they're based – are not allowed to sell unsafe toys to children in the UK. And society has long protected youngsters from things like alcohol, smoking and gambling. The digital world should be no different," she said. So the UK plans to fine Parisian bars that serve alcohol to British under-18s in France on holiday?

This is more like the UK fining Parisian bars that courier alcohol to under-18s in the UK .

Not exactly.

It’s like fining Parisian bars to hand over alcohol to couriers without checking to whom couriers will deliver it.

Couriers = all involved network providers.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#134
People here seem to be thinking this a UK/Europe-specific phenomenon, but there's plenty of examples of the US "seizing" sites that were never hosted in the USA either, and even put pressure on countries to extradite people involved even if they never broke any laws in the country they're living in.

One I remember was a site hosting streams of the 2022 football world cup. Or a number of Iranian-affiliated news sites just last year. Or offshore gambling websites in 2021.

People going "Those Crazy Brits! Thank God That'll Never Happen Here!" seem pretty ill-informed.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#136

4chan's lawyer's response: "In the only country in which 4chan operates, the United States, it is breaking no law and indeed its conduct is expressly protected by the First Amendment."[0] [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c624330lg1ko

As shown in that same article, they also responded: >>> "Companies – wherever they're based – are not allowed to sell unsafe toys to children in the UK. And society has long protected youngsters from things like alcohol, smoking and gambling. The digital world should be no different," she said. "The UK is setting new standards for online safety. Age checks and risk assessments are cornerstones of our laws, and we'll…

> even if their citizenry can access it; it's on them to block that access if they don't like it

Not even China and North Korea whine about or send fake “fines” to offshore entities. They just block their sites and move on with life.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commenting on Europe has gotten really lax the last year or so. People kinda will just say whatever pops into their head and it’s some drive-by claim that they haven’t thought about for a second past it popping into their head, presumably because it’s become normalized. (i.e. “but everyone knows Europe goes too far”) Sometimes it self resolves - as you contributed here, yes, countries limit and interfere and fine oth…

[flagged]

What do you mean?

I’m at +4, so, I’m doubting it’s unreadable…

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#138
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4chan's lawyer, who has been engaging with this well since the beginning, has clearly advised his clients, who have no intent of ever going to the UK, to not go there. In addition, Ofcom does not have the ability to collect them through the EU itself. They must go to the UK. It already sounds like Ofcom is likely to lose lawsuits about this, as they do not have jurisdiction in the U.S., where 4chan is hosted.

> Ofcom is likely to lose lawsuits about this, as they do not have jurisdiction in the U.S. How would Ofcom even have a lawsuit to lose? Are they going to file it in the US? Of course not, USA courts will tell them to pound sand. They'll just advise the UK government to block 4chan nationwide. Which is really what they want to do anyway.

Ofcom doesn’t really wanna block websites though, they want websites to either comply or block themselves, both of which legitimizing Ofcom’s extraterritorial enforcement.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#139
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a UK citizen: you're exactly right. If the UK wants to prevent 4chan from being imported into the UK then it needs to block it at the border as it would for physical goods. The fact that's technically hard to do (at least without going full-on CCP) doesn't change the situation. Attempting to fine a foreign entity for doing something that breaks no laws in the foreign entity's jurisdiction is just risible.

And we shall call it "the Great Firewall of the UK". It is amazing that these guys don't see the irony of monkeying totaliterian states policies, in term of surveillance and censorship.

The UK, like Australia and many of its other offshoots has always had a bit of a totalitarian streak.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#140
post #16

The response from Ofcom doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. If you are to sell a toy in the UK you must be a British company. (and must pay VAT and comply with British safety standards). If a consumer buys from overseas and imports a product then they do not have British consumer protections. Which is why so much aliexpress electrical stuff is dangerous (expecially USB chargers) yet it continues to be legally imported. Jus…

That’s not really true. The Ofcom representative said “not allowed” not “unable to”. Even if cocaine is legal in my country, I’m “not allowed” to sell it to British consumers by the power of the British authorities. The British authorities may not have legal authority in my jurisdiction but they can take action in their own, including issuing penalties and stopping my deliveries at the border.

But if a Brit comes to your country and buys cocaine from you, in person, you wouldn't expect to be convicted as a dealer in the UK.

Ofcom has a bad handle on web requests. Clients connect out. 4chan et al aren't pushing their services in anyone in the UK.

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