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4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

bbc.com

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Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#91

Post by vorpalhex »

chrisjj wrote: post #63
chuckadams wrote: post #49

Amateurs. Russia has fined Google more than the GDP of the entire planet. Odds of collecting are about the same.

Odds of collecting some 4chan execs travelling abroad are a lot higher, though

4chan's lawyer, who has been engaging with this well since the beginning, has clearly advised his clients, who have no intent of ever going to the UK, to not go there. In addition, Ofcom does not have the ability to collect them through the EU itself. They must go to the UK.

It already sounds like Ofcom is likely to lose lawsuits about this, as they do not have jurisdiction in the U.S., where 4chan is hosted.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#92

Post by richwater »

chrisjj wrote: post #58
deaddodo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As shown in that same article, they also responded: >>> "Companies – wherever they're based – are not allowed to sell unsafe toys to children in the UK. And society has long protected youngsters from things like alcohol, smoking and gambling. The digital world should be no different," she said. "The UK is setting new standards for online safety. Age checks and risk assessments are cornerstones of our laws, and we'll…

> 4Chan operates in the US And the UK... each time it delivers there.

The UK can block whatever they want if they'd like to become an authoritarian firewall state.

But they have no legal basis to fine 4chan.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#93

Post by wat10000 »

okanat wrote: post #62
ecshafer wrote: post #39

UK fining an American company for this is absurd. 4Chan isn't breaking any laws. You can make it illegal for your own citizens but you can't regulate a foreign business. UK citizens should fight for the right to free speech though.

This is false. You of course can regulate and fine a foreign business. That's how trade regulations work. The UK isn't going to get a cent from that but the leadership is banned from entering the UK for the foreseeable future. Doing this a lot as a country is how you achieve pariah status and losing a bunch of trade, though.

Trade regulations apply to the importer, which might also be the exporter if they have a local presence, but also may not be.

If I buy something illegal off of AliExpress, the US government won't and can't do squat to the seller. If they decide to enforce the law, they'll go after me.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#94

Post by thunderfork »

gnfargbl wrote: post #83
deaddodo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As shown in that same article, they also responded: >>> "Companies – wherever they're based – are not allowed to sell unsafe toys to children in the UK. And society has long protected youngsters from things like alcohol, smoking and gambling. The digital world should be no different," she said. "The UK is setting new standards for online safety. Age checks and risk assessments are cornerstones of our laws, and we'll…

Speaking as a UK citizen: you're exactly right. If the UK wants to prevent 4chan from being imported into the UK then it needs to block it at the border as it would for physical goods. The fact that's technically hard to do (at least without going full-on CCP) doesn't change the situation. Attempting to fine a foreign entity for doing something that breaks no laws in the foreign entity's jurisdiction is just risible.

It's very much a rock-and-a-hard-place situation. "It's an import", so they have to respond to it like they'd respond to imports...

But unlike physical imports, there's a sense that blocking these imports is an affront to base philosophical freedom in a way that prohibiting physical imports isn't.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#96

Post by vorpalhex »

chrisjj wrote: post #58
deaddodo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As shown in that same article, they also responded: >>> "Companies – wherever they're based – are not allowed to sell unsafe toys to children in the UK. And society has long protected youngsters from things like alcohol, smoking and gambling. The digital world should be no different," she said. "The UK is setting new standards for online safety. Age checks and risk assessments are cornerstones of our laws, and we'll…

> 4Chan operates in the US And the UK... each time it delivers there.

4Chan has blocked the entire UK IP range. They do not host any infrastructure there.

They are bound by UK law exactly as much as they are bound by Venutian or Mars law.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#97

Post by kasperni »

ecshafer wrote: post #39

UK fining an American company for this is absurd. 4Chan isn't breaking any laws. You can make it illegal for your own citizens but you can't regulate a foreign business. UK citizens should fight for the right to free speech though.

How is this different than, for example, the US fining TikTok? https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-ftc-record-fine-childrens...

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#98

Post by nvme0n1p1 »

crtasm wrote: post #42
dijit wrote: post #16

The response from Ofcom doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. If you are to sell a toy in the UK you must be a British company. (and must pay VAT and comply with British safety standards). If a consumer buys from overseas and imports a product then they do not have British consumer protections. Which is why so much aliexpress electrical stuff is dangerous (expecially USB chargers) yet it continues to be legally imported. Jus…

Is it correct to say the consumer is importing a product when it's aliexpress shipping it to them?

Of course. What situation are you imagining where a country imports a product without the seller shipping the product to that country?

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#99

Post by 2b3a51 »

kps wrote: post #78
OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #5

4chan's lawyer's response: "In the only country in which 4chan operates, the United States, it is breaking no law and indeed its conduct is expressly protected by the First Amendment."[0] [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c624330lg1ko

It's unfortunate that the US lawyers did not cite the reply given in Arkell v Pressdram.

Arkell v Pressdram was in response to a civil claim that never reached a court, so slightly different. I take the wider point though.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#100

Post by fauigerzigerk »

gnfargbl wrote: post #83
deaddodo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As shown in that same article, they also responded: >>> "Companies – wherever they're based – are not allowed to sell unsafe toys to children in the UK. And society has long protected youngsters from things like alcohol, smoking and gambling. The digital world should be no different," she said. "The UK is setting new standards for online safety. Age checks and risk assessments are cornerstones of our laws, and we'll…

Speaking as a UK citizen: you're exactly right. If the UK wants to prevent 4chan from being imported into the UK then it needs to block it at the border as it would for physical goods. The fact that's technically hard to do (at least without going full-on CCP) doesn't change the situation. Attempting to fine a foreign entity for doing something that breaks no laws in the foreign entity's jurisdiction is just risible.

UK ISPs do block some domains though.
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