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Kagi is contemplating the removal of the assistant from its professional tier

kagifeedback.org

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Re: Kagi is contemplating the removal of the assistant from its professional tier

#91

Post by wpm »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #83
sph wrote: post #5

Good. I'm a paying user from day one, and I never used, nor want to see any AI features on my search engine. I'd use Google if I cared about any of that stuff. Honestly, I just want my money to be used to improve good old match-keywords-against-index search.

Unless you append a question mark to your queries you're not going to interact with AI. Just don't use it. They're not forcing it down your throat. Cheering for people losing access to the service while paying the same price just seems wrong.

And on the other hand, I have the "end with question mark? That means you want AI" thing disabled. I am subsidizing the tokens other paying users are using far more than I am, which is approximately zero. Why should I pay for features I don't use?

Re: Kagi is contemplating the removal of the assistant from its professional tier

#92

Post by xigoi »

wpm wrote: post #91
jasonvorhe wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you append a question mark to your queries you're not going to interact with AI. Just don't use it. They're not forcing it down your throat. Cheering for people losing access to the service while paying the same price just seems wrong.

And on the other hand, I have the "end with question mark? That means you want AI" thing disabled. I am subsidizing the tokens other paying users are using far more than I am, which is approximately zero. Why should I pay for features I don't use?

According to the Kagi team, customers who don’t use AI cost them more, so you’re not subsidizing anything.

Re: Kagi is contemplating the removal of the assistant from its professional tier

#94

Post by xigoi »

DamnInteresting wrote: post #68
zetanor wrote: post #62

Strangely: "Searches are, unexpectedly, more expensive for us to serve than AI. A user that does only traditional searches (not using Assistant) will cost more on our end than someone using AI + search." https://kagifeedback.org/d/1338-provide-a-plan-without-ai-fu...

> A user that does only traditional searches (not using Assistant) will cost more on our end than someone using AI + search. Unless I am missing something, that appears to be a mathematically impossible claim. They are saying A > A+B, where both A and B are positive values. I suppose it could be that non-AI users do more total searches, and the extras add up. Hmm.

I think their point is that an AI user makes fewer searches on average because AI helps ttem find what they’re looking for faster.

Re: Kagi is contemplating the removal of the assistant from its professional tier

#95

Post by Affric »

xigoi wrote: post #92
wpm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And on the other hand, I have the "end with question mark? That means you want AI" thing disabled. I am subsidizing the tokens other paying users are using far more than I am, which is approximately zero. Why should I pay for features I don't use?

According to the Kagi team, customers who don’t use AI cost them more, so you’re not subsidizing anything.

I am interested in this claim. Do you have a link?

Re: Kagi is contemplating the removal of the assistant from its professional tier

#96

Post by xigoi »

Affric wrote: post #95
xigoi wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the Kagi team, customers who don’t use AI cost them more, so you’re not subsidizing anything.

I am interested in this claim. Do you have a link?

https://kagifeedback.org/d/1338-provide-a-plan-without-ai-fu...

> A common misconception is that AI is more expensive than search. Opposite is true - performing a search is 100x-1000x more expensive than doing an interaction with AI.

> A single search is about ~ 1.5 cents (probably bit less these days, but general ballpark)

> A small AI model can generate a lot of tokens for the same price

> To put this in perspective, 1.5 cents of Gemini Flash usage:

> 50,000 input tokens ≈ 37,500 words (roughly 75-150 pages of text) or 6,000 output tokens ≈ 4,500 words (roughly 9-18 pages of text)

> That is A LOT of information for the cost of just 1 search.

> It may be counter-intuitive but that is how it is. If someone is using AI to answer common questions, learn about a concept, do a quick brainstorm or a translation - instead of searching - our cost is (much) lower.

> So if anything, having AI lowers our cost, not increases it. This is why when we added access to AI models to Pro tier we didn't increase the price.

Re: Kagi is contemplating the removal of the assistant from its professional tier

#97

Post by thi2 »

denkmoon wrote: post #20
Valodim wrote: post #8

Kagi is unfortunately in a tough spot, imo. I'm a happy subscriber, and it's certainly a big improvement over Google search. But the internet just isn't the same place it was five years ago. And as search results (for non-navigational queries) are becoming less useful by the day, I find myself asking AI to do it for me more. There's a lot to like about Kagi, but they'll probably have to reinvent themselves if they wa…

Why though. Why does it need to grow beyond a niche premium option? As long as they’re paying the bills and everyone is happy why not just let a good thing keep chugging along.

Investors want to see growth, chugging along is not the return they expect. It would be nice tho.

Re: Kagi is contemplating the removal of the assistant from its professional tier

#98

Post by entropyie »

Please keep Assistant, it's an easy to use alternative to OpenAI, and is not intrusive. I will say that I find the GUI infuriating though... It's never clear where the cursor is when you start a new chat. Don't understand the low contrast layout with too much whitespace.

Re: Kagi is contemplating the removal of the assistant from its professional tier

#99

Post by Affric »

xigoi wrote: post #96
Affric wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am interested in this claim. Do you have a link?

https://kagifeedback.org/d/1338-provide-a-plan-without-ai-fu... > A common misconception is that AI is more expensive than search. Opposite is true - performing a search is 100x-1000x more expensive than doing an interaction with AI. > A single search is about ~ 1.5 cents (probably bit less these days, but general ballpark) > A small AI model can generate a lot of tokens for the same price > To put this in perspectiv…

Makes sense.

Thank you.

Re: Kagi is contemplating the removal of the assistant from its professional tier

#100

Post by greatgib »

sph wrote: post #5

Good. I'm a paying user from day one, and I never used, nor want to see any AI features on my search engine. I'd use Google if I cared about any of that stuff. Honestly, I just want my money to be used to improve good old match-keywords-against-index search.

I agree with you for a general assistant but even if I'm also not interested to pay for an assistant there are 2 features that I like and bring a lot of value by default in my opinion: - if you put an interrogation point at the end of the query you have an AI reply based on the search query. - you can ask a question about that to investigate more.
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