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Ghost — rethinking WordPress

john.onolan.org

51–60 of 236 posts

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#51
post #37

Note to the author: if you throw those images into ImageOptim, you can save at least 15%. Probably convenient when you get hit by HN - and don't seem to be hosting images on S3. http://imageoptim.com/

I prefer Yahoo! YSlow Smush.it [1] which does this for you online. [1] http://www.smushit.com/ysmush.it/

ImageOptim can be configured to reduce the size by a lot more than any of the online tools will. If you're on a Mac, there's no reason to use anything other than ImageOptim and ImageAlpha[1].

[1] http://pngmini.com

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#52
post #34

I'd almost like to see it go the other way. WordPress is a good blog, but a poor CMS choice for anything but the most basic of websites. I reckon the "66%" that use WordPress use it for personal sites or very small business sites (1-10 visitors a day) on shared hosting. There are huge sites using it, but they seem to be the exception that proves the rule. I cannot see why people use WordPress over the likes of Concre…

>I cannot see why people use WordPress over the likes of Concrete5 or a full CMS on any other platform outside of WordPress being accessible for entry-level developers.

I run a very modestly profitable website that gets about 1k visitors per day. I'm not even an "entry-level developer", I'm not a developer at all, with only the most rudimentary ability to kludge together a little JS and php.

I chose Wordpress for the site, even though it's not a blog. In fact, creating a system where posts weren't displayed in chronological order actually took a few hours of blindly hacking at various WP functions.

The reasons I chose Wordpress over an existing CMS:

* I already know how to use WP

* There is a vast array of FLOSS themes and plugins to meet virtually any need available

* Wordpress is well supported by shared hosting and managed VPS providers (through cpanel etc.)

* It's relatively easy to get free high-level support through IRC because so many people know WP

Most of these reasons are inertia based. It would be a vast undertaking to create a CMS version of Wordpress that actually gained traction because, awkward as WP is, it has an enormous library of free existing solutions to take on virtually any problem. This quality, which the author of the article complains about, it the same reason WP would be so hard to kill. Even if your product is better for a given purpose, people aren't going to give up the advantages of WP I outlined above just for an incremental improvement in UX or speed.

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#53
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PHP has the big benefit of being deployable anywhere. Without that fact it is unlikely that projects like Drupal or WordPress would've taken off as they have.

Newer languages aren't? Every linux distro that matters (including BSD, Gentoo, and others with a ports system), heck even Windows, has a full Rails stack that's about two commands away from being fully set up. Unless I misunderstood what you mean, here :)

Sure, you're right. But i suspect that 95% of all WP installs are by non-techies on shared hosting, that very rarely have Rails or Python support.

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#54
Very interesting ideas here, for me particulary in the "free as in Mozilla, not as in Automattic" angle. Some might consider it blasphemy to say Auttomattic and WordPress have divergent goals so I'm glad people are having the discussion.

All that said, I'm not sure I want a CMS from someone who uses images for text instead of actual text

http://john.onolan.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/81.png

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#55
Personally, and I know this is a ridiculous dream, I'd rather see a clone of Wordpress functionality which maintained 95%+ plugin compatibility, but which had things like caching built-in (and just more sensible handing of files and databases in general).

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#56
So is the argument to improve the visuals of WP, it's functionality, or both?

If I'm grabbing the thesis statement properly, it sounds like the idea is to make WP more flexible as a CMS. If so, that'd be very handy.

I'm not sure how it would work logistically, but it'd be cool if admins could flip a switch (maybe in wp-config) that makes a site either "blog" mode or "CMS" mode. Sort of like what you have to do to make a site networked (i.e. multiple blogs same domain).

I like John's ideas here, and this is something that should be talked about. If John has ties back to WP, though, I would present the ideas and make a case for letting him head up design or experience. The forking thing could get way out of hand (and confuse a lot of people).

Short of that, I'd say take the Ghost name and start building your own platform. It'd be cool to see another open competitor to WP. Especially if it shared a lot of the same principles.

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#57
post #43

> Less Options ... there are still too many options, too many settings, too many things which you have an unnecessary level of control over in the administrative user interface ... Things that many people have never even used. Ghost would get rid of all that. And you hope to captivate the hearts and minds of the open-source developer community? Haven't you seen what happened with earlier versions of GNOME 3 and Unity…

WordPress already has a "hidden" options page which lets you tweak a tonne of things. Therefore I think you're hitting the nail on the head with hiding the lesser used options away. It'd be nice if, should you change a setting, it would automatically become part of your main options screen & not the hidden one. It would also need to be heavily documented.

I think this is probably preferable to the overhead of tonnes of plugins??

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#58

    > Ghost would be developed openly, and it would encourage contribution. Until
    > now, Open Source projects have often had an incredibly high barier [sic] to
    > entry for contribution, which is so complicated and convoluted that only
    > advanced-level developers have ever really had a hope of getting involved.

    > Ghost would facilitate open and easy contribution from people with different
    > skillsets to help grow and evolve the platform. Because designers and
    > developers working together to solve problems always produces a better end
    > result.
N.B.: I'm talking from my experience with other open-source projects; I haven't worked with Wordpress before but I think there are some generalizations here that need addressing.

I disagree that there's an ‘incredibly’ high barrier to entry with many FLOSS projects, over and above the technical ability to read and understand what's happening in the code (which cannot be made up for through community efforts, or indeed forking). The language used in this passage presents these issues as manufactured or intended, and therefore as problems that can be fixed by simply making different decisions. But they're fundamentally issues of community, and of time/attention management on the part of the core developers, and they require extraordinary patience.

It's very easy to say "get designers and developers working together". But, as I've seen with DevOps (which is the principle of "developers and operations working together"), the phrase "working together" is often used without any understanding of its meaning.

I don't want to come across as a naysayer. But seriously, if you have the answers to the problems presented here, a lot of people would love to know.

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used the sociable plugin (like/tweet/+1 buttons). Out of extremism I tested under elinks, saw some weird empty ul/li hanging around, inspected the plugin config and then went into the code. The latest release at the time was barely beta code, large spans of deadcode, copy/pasted pages-long loops that were 90% similar. Wordpress plugin pages quote millions of download for this plugin. Who needs quality ?

(100% totally non sarcastic here) This is what I love about PHP devs. Imagine how much effort it was to write that. The author may not have have the chops to refactor that into something elegant, but he wanted it done and was perfectly willing to just do it the hard way and FUCKING SHIP IT, warts and all. Its easy to laugh at code after the fact, but you can't argue that a ton of people aren't finding the author's wo…

Agreed, and my question was half sarcastic / half pragmatic. But I don't know where I stand on this issue. Answers lie somewhere in the middle, and to me, this case was quite out of balance.
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