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Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

ilga.gov

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Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#411

Post by mittensc »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #350
marcus_holmes wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... a pinky swear then, right? I mean, how is the OS going to actually verify the age of the operator? I see how this helps Facebook - if you lie to the OS, and the OS tells Facebook that you're over 18, then it's not Facebook's fault if they provide you an 18+ service. I don't see how this helps anyone else.

It's set by the administrator of the computer, so a parent can set it for their child instead of hoping their child is honest to every single individual site. That's the difference between a parental control and a pinky swear.

so the kid boots linux off a usb stick and makes this pointless

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#412

Post by prophesi »

alephnerd wrote: post #71
prophesi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and increasingly, the demographics on HN don't align with those who work in those organizations. People have been worried about that on HN for years, but I still see the same culture. There do seem to be more bots and astroturfing, but that's a systemic issue with all social media platforms today.

> People have been worried about that on HN for years, but I still see the same culture... And that's the crux of the issue - the industry and people have changed, but HN hasn't changed discourse wise and is growing increasingly disconnected demographically speaking. A large portion of HNers are men in their late 30s to 50s, and no longer located in the Bay Area or NYC. No one's who matters is having these kinds of c…

And what I'm saying is that the people who actually matter are posting here. Because it's a trusted social platform. We want to talk to fellow experts of varied expertise, and I truly appreciate the discussions I have here. Feel free to have discussions of similar value on platforms with smaller, focused communities; I do the same for the tech I know. I do agree bots/astroturfing are prevalent here. But I've had https://news.ycombinator.com as my homepage for ages for a reason, as opposed to literally any other forum. I hope this doesn't become what reddit is now.

Did "hacker news" lose its stallman flavor in favor of venture capital investors? Yes, at the get-go; but that doesn't mean people have sold out their morals. We're all frustrated. We live in a society. At least in the US, you'll just call a representative who's getting paid by lobbyists letting your message fall on deaf ears. But I have seen so many great comments here by people with beautiful minds and good intentions; and sometimes I can even debate with them and get my ass handed to me, because they're much more brilliant than I.

edit: was curious on Luma. Is it basically meetup/radius/partiful/apple invites but for crypto bros?

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#413

Post by gloosx »

pianoben wrote: post #88
mgfist wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be externalized to a degree. Facebook shouldn't be the ones verifying age, but there should be a trusted 3rd party service that does that, which just tells facebook "yes this user is old enough to use your service" or "no they're not old enough". It abso-fucking-lutely should not be at the OS level though, for so many reasons. Even the implementation alone would be a nightmare. Do I need to input my ID to u…

Or, and hear me out, _maybe our computers shouldn't spy on us in the first place_?

It's not the gun that kills. It's not the computer that spies.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#414

Post by duskdozer »

mminer237 wrote: post #331
duskdozer wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the solution is to remove the bits of those apps that are harmful to children (and adults): the algorithmic data feed, the infinite scroll, the engagement tactics, the advertising

So, for instance, pornography and gambling should be 100% illegal? Or at the least, all social media sites should censor any discussions that aren't child-appropriate?

No, I don't think pornography, or arguably gambling has the same "manipulative addictiveness" hooks in the same way. The equivalent for those would be something like, if a company every time you opened their porn app had your phone emit a silent puff of nicotine (just... imagine that existed for the sake of analogy). It's about the difference between going on to Facebook and seeing your feed of your friends' posts and seeing your feed of posts selected based on content expected to ragebait you into responding.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#415

Post by phicoh »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #236
phicoh wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge attack surface for this. For example, kid manages to buy an old phone. Resets the phone and creates an account. Kid buys something like a Pi 3 manages to get a regular phone to become an access point. Etc. If a laptop is not completely locked down, a kid might boot a live USB stick.

Barriers like that for accessing 18+ sites would be so much better than nothing. And cheat devices can be taken away as soon as the parent notices them.

The problem is that these laws tend to escalate. Once a government starts regulating, it doesn't stop.

It is also the wrong model. Instead of creating child-safe devices, just like there is a difference between toys and power tools, this regulation pretends that all devices are child safe and parents have to figure out which ones really aren't.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#416

Post by phendrenad2 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #251
pianoben wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, and hear me out, _maybe our computers shouldn't spy on us in the first place_?

So which situation do you want instead of anonymous age verification: A) 18+ content is behind a pinky swear B) 18+ content is behind a parental control (what this bill would do) C) The internet can't have 18+ content anymore D) Some other system? Please describe it.

The spin control on this story is intense. Saying that it's "just parental controls" when we've had fscking parental controls since the 1990s is disingenuous as hell. Obviously it's something new, but that's really all they have got to try to spin it back into their favor.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#417

Post by phendrenad2 »

pocksuppet wrote: post #240
Slow_Hand wrote: post #7

If I’m not mistaken, Meta has been lobbying heavily for all of these age-verification bills lately. It seems their strategy is to externalize their responsibility to verify age themselves, and thus reduce their exposure to liabilities when child protection acts like COPPA are violated.

Sometimes even things that are good for Meta are good for the rest of us. This law, and the one in California, mean that liability is disclaimed as long as the parent selects an age above 18 for the child. It's like a section 230 for age protection. Meta supports this because they won't be liable for wrong age inputs, and we should also support this because it doesn't verify age in any other way.

We should support something that does the minimum to accomplish the goal. As luck would have it, we don't need to do anything because parental controls already exist, and apps like YouTube already have a "kid mode". But for some reason, people are very attached to the idea of getting that number. Your age. It isn't enough to have a boolean isAdult. Oh no, they want to know how old you are, and they want that number to follow tou everywhere you go. View a site on your PC and then load it in incognito to create an account and comment? Oh look, this person we've identified as pockauppet age 99 or whatever viewed the page, then someone registered aged 99 and commented on that same page. This is a data goldmine. But I guess we're not against sharing data anymore.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#418

Post by favorited »

longislandguido wrote: post #309
favorited wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Progressive states" like Utah, Texas, and Louisiana? https://le.utah.gov/~2025/bills/static/SB0142.html https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/89R/billtext/html/SB02420S... https://www.legis.la.gov/Legis/ViewDocument.aspx?d=1427667

Literally every single thing you linked to is completely unrelated to the topic at hand. Those are all specifically targeted at mobile app stores—which already verify age—and have nothing to do with general purpose operating systems or their account creation. Try moving the goalposts more carefully next time.

They are two sides of the same coin, both funded by Facebook to shift age verification liability from their platform to OS vendors.

If you were interested in information beyond your own echo chamber, you’d realize that literally every significant app store is run by an OS vendor.

Try using basic critical thinking next time.

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1rmhxk1/i_pulled_the...

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#419

Post by Dylan16807 »

phicoh wrote: post #415
Dylan16807 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barriers like that for accessing 18+ sites would be so much better than nothing. And cheat devices can be taken away as soon as the parent notices them.

The problem is that these laws tend to escalate. Once a government starts regulating, it doesn't stop. It is also the wrong model. Instead of creating child-safe devices, just like there is a difference between toys and power tools, this regulation pretends that all devices are child safe and parents have to figure out which ones really aren't.

Well basically nobody is making child safe computers for ages over 7. Sitting around hoping that changes isn't useful.

So trying to force a very very basic child safe mode makes sense.

And I don't think this regulation pretends all devices are child safe.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#420

Post by pembrook »

fn-mote wrote: post #345
pembrook wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta is definitely helping to push this, but they aren't having to push very hard because its already in the zeitgeist. It's a classic moral panic. Millennials are raising kids and turning into their boomer parents. Millennials had their hippie era in their 20s (same stuff their parents did rebranded as "hipster" instead of "hippie," where instead of building a lifestyle of free love and bong hits in the Haight-Ashbu…

> teens are depressed because they're seeing what parties they didn't get invited to More modern version: my experiences don’t look like the Instagram shots, my body doesn’t look like theirs, etc. > modern research on social media finds little to no affect on teen mental health Sounds like you know what you’re talking about, but if you have references I would read them. How about research on the effects of social med…

> my experiences don’t look like the Instagram shots, my body doesn’t look like theirs, etc

Zero difference from the reality TV/tabloid era. "Influencer" is just a rebranding of "celebrity," and instead of seeing their Hollywood Hills mansion and chiseled bodies on MTV cribs and in Abercrombie ads you see them on your phone.

Here's a few quick pulls, the best stuff is the meta-analysis studies but don't have time to dig them all out:

[1] Effects of reducing social media use are small and inconsistent: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266656032...

[2] Belief in "Social media addiction" is wholly explained by media framing and not an actual addiction: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-025-27053-2

[3] No causal link between time spent on social media and mental health harm: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2026/jan/14/social-media-t...

[4] The Flawed Evidence Behind Jonathan Haidt's Panic Farming: https://reason.com/2023/03/29/the-statistically-flawed-evide...

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