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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#381

Post by jesterson »

ggm-at-algebras wrote: post #349

In Shenzhen for a tech meeting. The streetscape is quieter, despite high traffic levels and I hear not only MORE birdsong, but the birds do more complex songlines. The air is clean. For sure some of this is because it's a coastal city and has fresh sea breezes, but I've been in other Chinese coastal cities in times past and the air was significantly less clean. There are social upsides for an almost-all-EV city. This…

>almost-all-EV city.

Shenzhen is not nearly "almost-all EV" city. There is a lot of wealthy people and almost none of them drives EV. You can see all expensive cars are ICE (blue plates).

Modern ICE cars emit almost no sound or emissions. Its not 70s with black smoke coming from exhaust pipes.

You can take any densely populated city with almost none EV vehicles (say Tokyo) and you can hear birds and air would be very clean.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#382

Post by svpk »

rob74 wrote: post #280
jacquesm wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either you're too smart for me or I just can't follow you, but could you please expand a bit on your comment? I find it hard to link it to the parent, but I realize that may be on me.

Sorry, it was referring more to the grandparent comment, that referred to Saudi Arabia behaving more responsibly than the US, and Mohammed bin Salman is of course the crown prince and prime minister of Saudi Arabia.

They're comparing Saudi Arabia to a drug dealer; I don't think they're ascribing any moral virtue to the Saudi regime. They just believe the Saudis are acting more intelligently.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#383

Post by jmspring »

I have a 2016 Tacoma I bought in 2015. It has ~114k miles, so ~11k miles/year. Gas is 16-18gal/mi. It's paid off. There is no math, outside of major repairs (it's maintained regularly) where any Hybrid or EV makes sense for the next 10+ years. Maintenance ~ 250 a year; Tires ~12-1300 every 3 years (more due to age than wear). So - 11k/year w/ fuel at $5/gal and 16mi/gal - $3.4k in fuel, 600/year in maintenance and tires. So $4k/year in rough cost (excluding insurance). Still high, but I've lived in rural areas the last 10 years.

A new vehicle makes no sense. Unless I went a budget used Prius (with a good hybrid battery system). No plan to make changes.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#384

Post by wileydragonfly »

jacquesm wrote: post #245
Slow_Hand wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be! I don't know enough to say what the ratio of exhaust to tire particulate is on the average road. In either case it's a good physical representation of how much particulate we are exposed to every day. Maybe having it trapped in dirty snowbanks is better than having it getting kicked up into the air during a dryer season.

Road particles, brakes and tires dominate that massively. https://www.eiturbanmobility.eu/press-corner/nees-are-the-ma...

[flagged]

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#385

Post by shiroiuma »

jacquesm wrote: post #92
TrackerFF wrote: post #85

I live in a top EV market, Norway. ICE cars have been planned out for years now, and something like 96% of all new cars in Norway were EV last year. Basically, if you plan on keeping selling ICE cars, you're removing yourself from the market here. There's no future for new personal ICE cars here. I figure most other countries will be the same.

> I live in a top EV market, Norway. It is the top EV market. > I figure most other countries will be the same. Most other countries are not Norway, it is a very wealthy, tiny market (150 K vehicles/year) with lots of hydro and not representative of the typical vehicle market in Western Europe and definitely not representative of the situation in the rest of the world. EVs are the future, there is no doubt about that…

>But that future will not arrive everywhere at the same point in time and Norway is very far ahead of the rest of the world due to a fairly unique set of circumstances: exporting your own oil and gas to be able to have a 'clean' (and up to recently heavily subsidized) transportation network is in a way just a gigantic bookkeeping trick.

Not really. Even in a hypothetical future where all road vehicles are electric, we'll still need fossil fuels for a while. For one thing, it's probably going to be a while before airplanes can go electric. And production of plastics will probably need petroleum for a long time.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#386

Post by jtbayly »

slg wrote: post #346
rkagerer wrote: post #308

Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time. No thank you. Not sure why the author frames this as a good thing. They've been bamboozled by the automakers and have got it backwards - you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled,…

>you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled, then paying rent (or a fee) to turn them on. This is very much not what "software-defined vehicle" means which itself is very much not the same thing as EVs. It's possible to criticize the explotative business practices you mentioned (or bad UI practices like moving everything to a touchscreen instead of physical buttons) without linking th…

I’ve never had a software-based danger on my hardware-based vehicles. As such, there is a whole class of recalls that I never needed: all the ones you tell me I’m missing out on.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#387

Post by kgermino »

nonford150 wrote: post #378

I almost pulled the trigger on a Prologue; so glad I had second thoughts. Even though it was essentially a GM product, I've only ever owned Hondas, so I thought "Well, at least I can get service at my Honda dealer". Charging in the US (other than at home) is still the biggest issue for me. I do lots of traveling, and waiting 30-45 minutes to charge even at a Level 3 charger is a PITA. If I had a J std charger, then i…

It does depend on what car you get. A RWD Ioniq5 can do about 3 hours on the highway with 20 minute stops (though the stops are a lot longer at the more-available Tesla chargers).

There’s other good roadtrip friendly options out there too, but ya with monthly drives like that you’re really limiting your options and ICE cars still make a lot of sense

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#388

Post by wileydragonfly »

boringg wrote: post #112
reverius42 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Long time before our electrical systems to be able to compensate for that kind of whole sale change. Will be at least 20 years if it ever happens. I don't know about the whole national electric grid, but at my house, I didn't really have to upgrade anything and didn't even notice an increase in electric bill when I started plugging in my EV. I don't think my car is even 20% of my household electricity usage. I'd ho…

Two points. 1. Infra will need to upgrade in order to handle heavy charging in neighborhoods with wholesale change in the fleet. It would change our electrical use model considerably in terms of times of use -- and we would be adding all the energy used from gas powered cars to the electrical grid - which is somewhat significant. 2. While you are correct technically -- I think what I am implying is older cars (ICE) w…

We are a net oil exporter. I have no idea where everyone around here thinks all this electricity to charge cars is going to come from.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#389

Post by pix128 »

jmspring wrote: post #383

I have a 2016 Tacoma I bought in 2015. It has ~114k miles, so ~11k miles/year. Gas is 16-18gal/mi. It's paid off. There is no math, outside of major repairs (it's maintained regularly) where any Hybrid or EV makes sense for the next 10+ years. Maintenance ~ 250 a year; Tires ~12-1300 every 3 years (more due to age than wear). So - 11k/year w/ fuel at $5/gal and 16mi/gal - $3.4k in fuel, 600/year in maintenance and ti…

okay? others are in the market for a car

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#390

Post by jesterson »

TrackerFF wrote: post #85

I live in a top EV market, Norway. ICE cars have been planned out for years now, and something like 96% of all new cars in Norway were EV last year. Basically, if you plan on keeping selling ICE cars, you're removing yourself from the market here. There's no future for new personal ICE cars here. I figure most other countries will be the same.

What would be the market like if there is no government intervention with subsidies - the free market?

I doubt EV would take any significant share if that would be the case.

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