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Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

ilga.gov

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Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#331

Post by mminer237 »

duskdozer wrote: post #215
pizzathyme wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"so full of holes as to be meaningless" what is the solution then to age gating apps that the public feels should be age gated? (TikTok, Instagram, etc). it seems like every app implementing its own guessing system would have even more holes, right? this is one where I am sympathetic. the moment when someone, with their parent, is setting up a device seems like the best point to check age. right? am I missing somethi…

the solution is to remove the bits of those apps that are harmful to children (and adults): the algorithmic data feed, the infinite scroll, the engagement tactics, the advertising

So, for instance, pornography and gambling should be 100% illegal? Or at the least, all social media sites should censor any discussions that aren't child-appropriate?

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#332

Post by mminer237 »

rnxrx wrote: post #295

There's something I've never seen a good answer to: why is this being mandated in the OS vs requiring it for apps - or classes of apps? There's plenty of parental controls already available for browsers - after verifying the user's age on startup, why not add a header field that the browser inserts along with AgentID (for example) and call it a day?

1. It's easier to download a new browser than reinstall your OS.

2. Plenty of websites make their own apps, and then you're back to just having every website under the sun trying to verify everyone's age to know who to show explicit content to.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#333

Post by array_key_first »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #251
pianoben wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, and hear me out, _maybe our computers shouldn't spy on us in the first place_?

So which situation do you want instead of anonymous age verification: A) 18+ content is behind a pinky swear B) 18+ content is behind a parental control (what this bill would do) C) The internet can't have 18+ content anymore D) Some other system? Please describe it.

C and D, combined. New internet for kids-only. This internet would be WHITELIST only. We would not be wack-a-mole trying to catch porn sites (sigh...)

Rather, companies would have to submit a formal proposal to get their website listed on Kid Internet. This inverts the responsibility. It's not my cost, or your cost, it's their cost now. If they want kids, they better prove it.

Then, you can trivially configure your router or any computer, with any operating system, to use the Kid Internet DNS. It's now completely operating system and device agnostic. It can be organizational wide with the flick of a switch. It can be global, if we want.

The proposal we're seeing here is bad, bad, bad. Not just for privacy reasons, but because it will not work. Not might, will. This will not work. For many reasons:

1. Most operating systems are not going to implement some stupid ass bullshit.

2. Most websites do not give a single fuck. Porn websites will not care. Trying to play wack-a-mole is ALWAYS a losing game, no exceptions.

3. This is trivial to bypass.

4. If it's not trivial to bypass, it still will not work, but it will now be the end of computing as we know it.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#334

Post by cyanydeez »

Slow_Hand wrote: post #7

If I’m not mistaken, Meta has been lobbying heavily for all of these age-verification bills lately. It seems their strategy is to externalize their responsibility to verify age themselves, and thus reduce their exposure to liabilities when child protection acts like COPPA are violated.

I think their strategy is to just sell more software. Liability was cut by buying the presidency.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#335

Post by 2postsperday »

PostOnce wrote: post #288
Dylan16807 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So which situation do you want instead of anonymous age verification: A) 18+ content is behind a pinky swear B) 18+ content is behind a parental control (what this bill would do) C) The internet can't have 18+ content anymore D) Some other system? Please describe it.

What about every other system where we rely on parents to parent? Kids can turn apple juice into wine in their closet they can drive their bicycle to a drug dealer they can rub a butter knife against the sidewalk until it's pointy Do we need govt AI cameras in kids closets and on their bicycles? How do we verify they're cycling somewhere safe? How do we make sure they're not getting shitfaced on bootleg hooch they ma…

[flagged]

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#336

Post by lemoncookiechip »

alistairSH wrote: post #160
pstuart wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we make contractors do age verification on their supplies when building a liquor store or strip club? The OS is a tool used by Meta, just like the utilities and the compute itself. Meta Apps can have age verification but it should be at the point of service, not the supply chain. And even if we were to agree to this, uploading your IDs to an untrusted third party is asking too much.

uploading your IDs to an untrusted third party is asking too much. So have the government do it? They already know who we are and when we were born.

I'd much rather a third party ID that I can easily bypass because they're lazy and cost saving every step of the way, than a governmental ID which will be x100 harder to bypass and can be abused by the goverment whenever there's a man-child in power who likes going after groups of people who don't agree with him.

But in a perfect world it would be parents doing their job and parenting. You can grab your child's pad, phone, laptop, whatever, and black list the entire internet allowing only a few select white lists of your choice. But it's too hard to educate parents on how to do that I guess, assuming this was ever about children and not data collection, which it is that.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#337

Post by DANmode »

mgfist wrote: post #78
Slow_Hand wrote: post #7

If I’m not mistaken, Meta has been lobbying heavily for all of these age-verification bills lately. It seems their strategy is to externalize their responsibility to verify age themselves, and thus reduce their exposure to liabilities when child protection acts like COPPA are violated.

It should be externalized to a degree. Facebook shouldn't be the ones verifying age, but there should be a trusted 3rd party service that does that, which just tells facebook "yes this user is old enough to use your service" or "no they're not old enough". It abso-fucking-lutely should not be at the OS level though, for so many reasons. Even the implementation alone would be a nightmare. Do I need to input my ID to u…

The trusted third-party is, in part, meant to be a society of responsible parents.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#338

Post by monocasa »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #304
alistairSH wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they already know my age (and my address, and my SS#, and my income, and a whole bunch of other stuff).

They don't know your full behavioral profile. They also may be willing to sell that data to third parties who use it for nefarious purposes.

They absolutely do. Anything you can get from data brokers doesn't require a warrant.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#339

Post by cucumber3732842 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #251
pianoben wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, and hear me out, _maybe our computers shouldn't spy on us in the first place_?

So which situation do you want instead of anonymous age verification: A) 18+ content is behind a pinky swear B) 18+ content is behind a parental control (what this bill would do) C) The internet can't have 18+ content anymore D) Some other system? Please describe it.

>A) 18+ content is behind a pinky swear

Things were way, way, way sketchier in like 2005 than they are now and those people turned out mostly fine.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#340

Post by newdee »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #312
davidhyde wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

D) Parenting

I think parents should have access to easy to operate parental controls to help them do their parenting.

Yes, parental controls already exist. You’re up and down this thread advocating for this particular bill, but what does the technical solution actually look like to you beyond the controls already available? And with regards to account creation specifically, what do you see as a workable solution that isn’t defeated by a “pinky swear”?
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