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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#171

Post by Spivak »

coryrc wrote: post #53
SR2Z wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, e-bikes with thumb throttles are so good that the only reason they haven't already supplanted motorcycles is that there are ten bajillion old unkillable motorcycle engines in use. It's a shame that US law doesn't have a nice in-between that would slot these bikes between proper e-bikes and motorcycles.

What's wrong with following motorcycle regulations?

Because e-bikes have effectively done regulatory arbitrage and the sky didn't fall. You want more people using small electric vehicles where before they would have used a car, you lower the burden to get one on the road.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#172

Post by kypro »

onraglanroad wrote: post #131
walthamstow wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is a very special case in that it has massive hydro energy resources and nobody lives there.

Norway has roughly the population of the average US state. So I guess no-one really lives in the USA.

0.1% of the population is pretty close to 0% to be fair.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#173

Post by speedgoose »

jmclnx wrote: post #63

Worldwide ? Seems so from the article. But my guess is maybe Honda will wait for Tesla or another US based auto company with EVs to fail and buy that company. Seems that is how large companies do "innovation" these days.

As realistic as Toshiba purchasing Apple.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#174

Post by paganel »

TrackerFF wrote: post #85

I live in a top EV market, Norway. ICE cars have been planned out for years now, and something like 96% of all new cars in Norway were EV last year. Basically, if you plan on keeping selling ICE cars, you're removing yourself from the market here. There's no future for new personal ICE cars here. I figure most other countries will be the same.

You're Norway, you don't count.

> I figure most other countries will be the same.

I figure you're wrong on that one.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#175

Post by celsoazevedo »

mempko wrote: post #126
mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's impossible. Also, China is making them too cheap to compete with, and in such quantity that they're basically dumping them and flooding the market. We have to enact laws and trade barriers to keep them out, or else we'll be drowning in them. Plus don't forget it's impossible to make that many EVs in the first place.

You are right. We don't need more EVs. Lets get rid of cars completely and built cheap electrified public transport. Make ICE cars illiegal. Going all EV won't help the environment. Going all public transport would.

Even in places where public transportation is very good, no bus goes everywhere or all the time, and trains are still limited to very specific routes. Need to go to the supermarket to buy food for your whole family? Not very practical on a bus. Live in rough area and come home from work late at night? Perhaps a car is safer. And so on. And this is in a city, it's even worse in rural areas.

Even as someone that loves electric vehicles and uses public transportation a lot, it's hard to get behind these extreme "let's ban X and go all on Y" views. It ignores how things work in the real world.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#176

Post by tmnvix »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #99
putlake wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mining isn't the only bottleneck with rare earths. There also the processing, which is an industry China has monopolized through sustained investments over decades. They have also improved processing efficiency through investments in technology. It's going to take a while for anyone else to catch up.

> There also the processing, which is an industry China has monopolized through sustained investments over decades. I don't think this is the right way to characterize it. China invested when other countries didn't, but they didn't monopolize the market, they have no moat beyond expertise and some tech advancement that could be replicated easily enough. The only moat they have is related perseverance and other countr…

> they have no moat beyond expertise and some tech advancement

See my sibling comment. Their moat is the scale and structure of their industry. Some parts of rare earth processing are dependent on that.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#177

Post by jacquesm »

expedition32 wrote: post #156
jacquesm wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I live in a top EV market, Norway. It is the top EV market. > I figure most other countries will be the same. Most other countries are not Norway, it is a very wealthy, tiny market (150 K vehicles/year) with lots of hydro and not representative of the typical vehicle market in Western Europe and definitely not representative of the situation in the rest of the world. EVs are the future, there is no doubt about that…

Most of the profits come from rich countries. And even then especially the more expensive cars. (Personally I am fine driving a 10 year old shit box because for me it is just a means of going from A to B and rather spend my money on other things)

My daily driver is approaching the ripe old age of 30, my main reason is a lack of software.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#178

Post by jacquesm »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #157
jacquesm wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I live in a top EV market, Norway. It is the top EV market. > I figure most other countries will be the same. Most other countries are not Norway, it is a very wealthy, tiny market (150 K vehicles/year) with lots of hydro and not representative of the typical vehicle market in Western Europe and definitely not representative of the situation in the rest of the world. EVs are the future, there is no doubt about that…

I mean - how are you defining most ? Most countries are quite poor and/or have small populations and aren't buying many vehicles period. About ~45% of countries have smaller populations than Norway, and Norway is in the top ~25% of countries by size of the auto market... Most countries are not the China and India, yet they make up almost 45% of the global population. The US and China make up about 45% of the auto mar…

Ok, we'll replace 'most' with 'all except for Norway'.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#179

Post by eigencoder »

boringg wrote: post #112
reverius42 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Long time before our electrical systems to be able to compensate for that kind of whole sale change. Will be at least 20 years if it ever happens. I don't know about the whole national electric grid, but at my house, I didn't really have to upgrade anything and didn't even notice an increase in electric bill when I started plugging in my EV. I don't think my car is even 20% of my household electricity usage. I'd ho…

Two points. 1. Infra will need to upgrade in order to handle heavy charging in neighborhoods with wholesale change in the fleet. It would change our electrical use model considerably in terms of times of use -- and we would be adding all the energy used from gas powered cars to the electrical grid - which is somewhat significant. 2. While you are correct technically -- I think what I am implying is older cars (ICE) w…

Just gotta hope that slate auto is successful!

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#180

Post by fpoling »

sigmoid10 wrote: post #51
GianFabien wrote: post #30

Smart doorbells and thermostats that upgraded in the night often became a nuisance or an expensive brick. But a faulty software upgrade on a car can kill you and others. Car company execs need to take a chill pill followed by a reality serum. Monetizing subscription based basic features and delivering in-car advertising is the absolutely worst way to go. As consumers we need to stop buying into the bells, whistles an…

Consumers have very little power in this space. Have you tried buying a non-premium car with physical buttons instead of touchscreens in recent years? There used to be hardly any option because carmakers all somehow decided this was the way forward, even though science clearly said it was making cars less safe. So if you needed a car and didn't have a ton of money, you could merely accept it. Only now that safety rat…

Toyota Yaris, a small budget car has physical buttons for everything.
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