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Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

ilga.gov

231–240 of 473 posts

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#231
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except none of these bills (California or the one in question) as currently written require an ID to actually be verified, merely that the user provide an age. This seems intentional as it's seems to solve the user journey where a parent is able to set a reasonable default by simply setting up an associated account age at account creation. It's effectively just standardizing parental controls. I think this is a reaso…

Kids aren't stupid. They'll just create another account when they're old enough to figure it out. They'll tell their friends how to do it and the rest of us will be stuck with these stupid prompts forever like it's a cookie banner.

It gives the parents the tools to age restrict things, but does not require parents to use them or use them well.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#232
post #46

It's kinda convenient because every service needs to ask you for the age now because they can't serve under 13s in a lot of cases. Having it be a simple API would be a decent convenience, no? If you connect it with a permission system where you can choose whether to provide this information (e.g. >13 as a bool or age as an integer or the birthday as a date) that can't be too bad I guess? I haven't read the whole thin…

It's forcing all OSs to do something that only a few should be doing. The correct way to do this is for the interested parties to form an association that does four things.

1. Creates a protocol with desired signals (country and a variable list of whatever others i.e. age,state) that clients (including browsers) CAN choose to use and forward.

2. Create an api OSs CAN implement to inform clients of those signals and if they can be overidden in the client. (Possibly even create an OS or service to run on OSs that implements it, parents can choose to install specific OS or service)

3. A open source server for governments to specify common classes of content and what to do when a specific SIGNAL (from the protocol in 1) is recieved (Serve content to SIGNAL group/serve content to everyone/never serve content). And what to do if content isn't in a class it recognizes(Serve content/not serve content). Association could also be extend it's duties to coordinate a list of types of content.

4. Maintain an authoritative list of servers by country so that those hosting services can reach the servers hosted in 3. So that webservers can visit those servers to find what they can serve if they wish to apply the law for that jurisdiction.

Horrible because it does codify less freedom and censorship. The advantages are that for a jurisdiction liability can fall on the right actor.

If you run a website/app you worry only if your in a jurisdiction that mandates you use the protocol and can easily geoblock crazy countries by using that signal and choose if a jurisdiction you want to deal with is worth the effort of coding for or whether you want to ignore that countries laws.

If you are a user you can choose to install the API or use an OS that implements it or an OS that spoofs it with only the liability of your jurisdiction. If you are a parent you can use an OS(or install a service) to implement it on your kids accounts.

If your an OS developer you can add functionality if desired/appropriate.

If you are a country you can specify what signals you use/require and can specify required signals (i.e. US may request the State signal so it can decide if it needs other signals to evaluate whether to serve "Social Media" content (i.e. age in the case of state=california)).

Not perfect but actually keeps punishment/enforcement to appropriate jurisdiction and means you can actually gracefully avoid liability for sites in broken jurisdictions rather than either kowtowing or being in breach. Also means it can be implemented in client if you don't want it on your OS or want the convenience of not being asked age without the ridiculous other stuff.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#233
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it makes sense for an App Store to do that. Or, that HTTP headers are set at the device or network proxy. User account creation wizards could just create the dot files for the App Store. These weird laws ban OS.

The issue is that software can be installed from outside of the app store on pretty much every OS. Also if you have multiple app stores it would be convenient if they could all get it from the same place.

I'm skeptical we should ban all operating systems which permit this without an interactive age check. Shouldn't the free market acolytes be arguing that parents can choose between competitors which offer ever-improving parental controls?

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#234
post #206
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard Android is a more common OS. In any case, if your OS fails to ask a user their age, it’s banned.

Okay, sorry yes that was an oversimplification. Android does ask your age as well, so that's all of them for mobile phones.

Android doesn't ask your age, Google does for an account. You can use an android phone without a google account. Most people don't but the distinction is important because degoogled android phones will also have to comply.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#235
post #70
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How should they do it? Surely they don't have a responsibility to do something that nobody knows how to do? There have been numerous cases in history where governments have attempted to legislate the outcome they want without regard to how that might be done or if it was possible in the first place. Obviously it can never deliver the results they want. It would be like passing a law to say every company must operate…

bad take man. these companies don't care about kids; they just want to take the responsivity off of themselves. they don't actually put any money towards child safety.

But the parent comment didn't say anything about companies caring. So you're not disagreeing with them, unless you think any selfish corporate action should be automatically opposed. And that would be a bad take; it's way too generic and applies to both sides of most issues.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#236
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean on a UNIX OS you could make it yet another group the user needs to be part of. Like the group for access to optical media or for changing network credentials. Whether the child gets root access is on the parent, but that is like with anything else. A child can get around this, but it means finding and exploiting a 0-day on the OS. If they are able to pull this of I would congratulate them.

There is a huge attack surface for this. For example, kid manages to buy an old phone. Resets the phone and creates an account. Kid buys something like a Pi 3 manages to get a regular phone to become an access point. Etc. If a laptop is not completely locked down, a kid might boot a live USB stick.

Barriers like that for accessing 18+ sites would be so much better than nothing.

And cheat devices can be taken away as soon as the parent notices them.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we make contractors do age verification on their supplies when building a liquor store or strip club? The OS is a tool used by Meta, just like the utilities and the compute itself. Meta Apps can have age verification but it should be at the point of service, not the supply chain. And even if we were to agree to this, uploading your IDs to an untrusted third party is asking too much.

uploading your IDs to an untrusted third party is asking too much. So have the government do it? They already know who we are and when we were born.

It's not enough for the government to know. Platforms, websites, and advertisers want to know. That's why the law facebook has been pushing for doesn't have a simple "is 18+" flag but instead has a long list of age buckets so that advertisers and platforms can target specific demographics even when they are minors.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#238
post #206
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard Android is a more common OS. In any case, if your OS fails to ask a user their age, it’s banned.

Okay, sorry yes that was an oversimplification. Android does ask your age as well, so that's all of them for mobile phones.

What about OSes that power shared devices you use in public, like airline ticket kiosks and bank ATMs?

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#239
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be externalized to a degree. Facebook shouldn't be the ones verifying age, but there should be a trusted 3rd party service that does that, which just tells facebook "yes this user is old enough to use your service" or "no they're not old enough". It abso-fucking-lutely should not be at the OS level though, for so many reasons. Even the implementation alone would be a nightmare. Do I need to input my ID to u…

Or, and hear me out, _maybe our computers shouldn't spy on us in the first place_?

[deleted]

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#240

If I’m not mistaken, Meta has been lobbying heavily for all of these age-verification bills lately. It seems their strategy is to externalize their responsibility to verify age themselves, and thus reduce their exposure to liabilities when child protection acts like COPPA are violated.

Sometimes even things that are good for Meta are good for the rest of us. This law, and the one in California, mean that liability is disclaimed as long as the parent selects an age above 18 for the child. It's like a section 230 for age protection. Meta supports this because they won't be liable for wrong age inputs, and we should also support this because it doesn't verify age in any other way.
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