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The return-to-the-office trend backfires

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Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#121

Post by diacritical »

palmotea wrote: post #118
diacritical wrote: post #71

I will never go back to the office. There are enough jobs around, even if they pay less. Hell, to live a comfortable life I could work at a job that pays 5x less than what I get paid now (not that much), even though I'll have to sacrifice some stuff. But I'll have to sacrifice luxuries, not my time or mental health. Personally, I see it like this: Option 1 - at home: * stay in my comfortable air-conditioned room in m…

> * having to make idle boring chit chat with corporate drones who want to socialize, This point makes you look like a jerk.

So? I wouldn't say it to their face. Who cares if I (a random person online) say something bad about no one in particular to a bunch of random people on the internet?

Can you honestly say you don't know people you'd describe, to yourself, at least, as corporate drones? Or maybe as boring, as squares, as idiots, as retards and so on? I bet you do. I bet everyone does, and everyone, including me, is the idiot in someone else's life. That's normal.

He who is without corporate drones in their life can cast the first stone.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#122

Post by _DeadFred_ »

bonesss wrote: post #91
thewebguyd wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The friends I know working big tech hybrid jobs work maybe 25 hours in a good week, whereas the friends I know in office 4/5 days a week are easily at double that. But are they actually more productive, or are they just spending additional hours "looking busy"? When I worked in office I "worked" 40 hours/week because I had to. Most of that wasn't actually work, maybe about 20-30 hours of actual work, sometimes less…

And what about frequent chats with work friends? No, not work, just hey how ya doin, and then someone brings coffee, then there’s a quick gab about the game, then a half baked question before a little catchup about that show. 2-4x salaries and minutes being burnt in small untracked chunks. Hours clocked and hours worked are not the same.

When I worked at a public company I was told to expect 80% max productivity from my people. If my team routinely entered more time than that against capitalizable projects I would get called out and have to explain how that could be true.

What you are talking about is people being people and should already be accounted for. If you need to track untracked chunks and minutes something is very wrong, and it is either your management of your people or that you work at a zombie company that can't afford enough workers and is only surviving on unrealistic labor expectations.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#123

Post by sosomoxie »

pdabbadabba wrote: post #27
imcrs wrote: post #13

RTO is about controlling labor, nothing else. Everything else is a smoke screen. Ask yourself the following questions and you'll understand what happened: - why did RTO happen seemingly right after salaries jumped and labor became scarce? - why did RTO happen virtually in lockstep across all of white collar employment? - why did RTO happen despite no evidence that productivity had anything to do with it? (and in fact…

I can't speak to your sector, but from the perspective in my management role (in law) the explanation is quite simple: managing remote workers is more difficult and less pleasant than managing workers in the office. I actually hate it. And even granting that remote and in-office workers are "productive" in the sense that they bill hours (though not even this seems true in my anecdotal experience), we find that people…

No offense but this sounds like you need to level up as a manager. I’ve managed many teams, in-person and remote. Remote is superior in every way, and it’s not even close. One of the reasons it’s better is because it’s harder to hide bad management.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#124

Post by sosomoxie »

palmotea wrote: post #118
diacritical wrote: post #71

I will never go back to the office. There are enough jobs around, even if they pay less. Hell, to live a comfortable life I could work at a job that pays 5x less than what I get paid now (not that much), even though I'll have to sacrifice some stuff. But I'll have to sacrifice luxuries, not my time or mental health. Personally, I see it like this: Option 1 - at home: * stay in my comfortable air-conditioned room in m…

> * having to make idle boring chit chat with corporate drones who want to socialize, This point makes you look like a jerk.

No it doesn’t. I have an organic social life. I’m not here to entertain people who don’t.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#125

Post by palmotea »

diacritical wrote: post #121
palmotea wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * having to make idle boring chit chat with corporate drones who want to socialize, This point makes you look like a jerk.

So? I wouldn't say it to their face. Who cares if I (a random person online) say something bad about no one in particular to a bunch of random people on the internet? Can you honestly say you don't know people you'd describe, to yourself, at least, as corporate drones? Or maybe as boring, as squares, as idiots, as retards and so on? I bet you do. I bet everyone does, and everyone, including me, is the idiot in someon…

> So? I wouldn't say it to their face. Who cares if I (a random person online) say something bad about no one in particular to a bunch of random people on the internet?

You're just revealing your true colors, that's all.

> Can you honestly say you don't know people you'd describe, to yourself, at least, as corporate drones? Or maybe as boring, as squares, as idiots, as retards and so on? I bet you do. I bet everyone does, and everyone, including me, is the idiot in someone else's life. That's normal.

I don't feel contempt for them (which is what calling them "drones" is). Feeling contempt for people like that is a jerk move.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#126

Post by feznyng »

mcs5280 wrote: post #61

My company gave us 3 months notice and said 100% RTO in January 2026. I warned them this was a dealbreaker for me. They said sorry, no exceptions. In January I submitted my two weeks notice, citing RTO. They accepted my resignation letter and then called me a few hours later saying they could make an exception. Now I'm back to 100% remote. I wouldn't consider myself to be an irreplaceable superstar employee, but they…

My extremely paranoid take is they might intend to replace you with someone who will RTO but need to keep you around for a while until they find that replacement.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#127

Post by AbstractH24 »

mcs5280 wrote: post #61

My company gave us 3 months notice and said 100% RTO in January 2026. I warned them this was a dealbreaker for me. They said sorry, no exceptions. In January I submitted my two weeks notice, citing RTO. They accepted my resignation letter and then called me a few hours later saying they could make an exception. Now I'm back to 100% remote. I wouldn't consider myself to be an irreplaceable superstar employee, but they…

Id be curious to know how this goes for you in 6-18 months

Best case scenario you get marginalized, middle case, is next time there are layoff, worst case they are already looking for your replacement

Regardless, unless you actively desire to get laid off I’d be searching for a job that actually wants remote people.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#128

Post by bdangubic »

feznyng wrote: post #126
mcs5280 wrote: post #61

My company gave us 3 months notice and said 100% RTO in January 2026. I warned them this was a dealbreaker for me. They said sorry, no exceptions. In January I submitted my two weeks notice, citing RTO. They accepted my resignation letter and then called me a few hours later saying they could make an exception. Now I'm back to 100% remote. I wouldn't consider myself to be an irreplaceable superstar employee, but they…

My extremely paranoid take is they might intend to replace you with someone who will RTO but need to keep you around for a while until they find that replacement.

This is exactly it. I hope for the sake of OP that s/he's the exception but so far examples of this from my personal circles is that it is just "you are here for the continuity until suitable replacement is found."

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#129

Post by diacritical »

palmotea wrote: post #125
diacritical wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? I wouldn't say it to their face. Who cares if I (a random person online) say something bad about no one in particular to a bunch of random people on the internet? Can you honestly say you don't know people you'd describe, to yourself, at least, as corporate drones? Or maybe as boring, as squares, as idiots, as retards and so on? I bet you do. I bet everyone does, and everyone, including me, is the idiot in someon…

> So? I wouldn't say it to their face. Who cares if I (a random person online) say something bad about no one in particular to a bunch of random people on the internet? You're just revealing your true colors, that's all. > Can you honestly say you don't know people you'd describe, to yourself, at least, as corporate drones? Or maybe as boring, as squares, as idiots, as retards and so on? I bet you do. I bet everyone…

A feeling is not a move, though. What I do makes me a jerk, not what I think or feel. Telling the drones to fuck off would be a jerk move, but I don't do it.

Re: The return-to-the-office trend backfires

#130

Post by pdabbadabba »

lm28469 wrote: post #37
pdabbadabba wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak to your sector, but from the perspective in my management role (in law) the explanation is quite simple: managing remote workers is more difficult and less pleasant than managing workers in the office. I actually hate it. And even granting that remote and in-office workers are "productive" in the sense that they bill hours (though not even this seems true in my anecdotal experience), we find that people…

Get better or quit then, I don't give a shit about managers, do your job and let the dozens of people you manage live their fucking lives, we're not here to please you or make your job easier

The more I read this thread the more it boggles my mind. How is it not completely obvious that part of your job, as an employee, is to not make life more difficult for your manager? (The reverse, of course, is true as well.) Managers cost money and tend to be there for a reason. If an employee makes their manager's job harder, that is a bad thing for the company.

Of course, that's not to say that making their manager's job easier is their only responsibility, or that they should ways do what makes their manager's life easier at any margin. Bot those are things I never said in the first place.

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