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Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

ilga.gov

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Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#141

Post by 1718627440 »

naikrovek wrote: post #104
JCattheATM wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the start of a very slippery slope.

Slippery slopes are a logical fallacy. Every single decision moving you down the slope is intentional. No sliding occurs if nothing actively pushes things down the slide. Accordingly, it is never too late to lobby against these things.

The problem with slippery slope is that every step can be defended as reasonable, but the overall result can't. Pointing out that something is means saying, I can't refute that single step and you know that, but I still am against it, because it is crucial to an harmful outcome that I really don't want. It argues against a policy by putting it into context.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#142

Post by bombcar »

nlitened wrote: post #118
naikrovek wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slippery slopes are a logical fallacy. Every single decision moving you down the slope is intentional. No sliding occurs if nothing actively pushes things down the slide. Accordingly, it is never too late to lobby against these things.

> Slippery slopes are a logical fallacy How is this a counter-argument? I often read this, as if there's some international trusted organization of logical thinkers that has approved inclusion of slippery slope to a list of logical fallacies that must never be invoked in a conversation. Every single time five years later it turns out that the slope actually was slippery.

Everyone who rants about slippery slopes being a fallacy also loves the boiling frog analogy (which technically might be a bit closer to what they're going for).

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#143

Post by cheschire »

glitchc wrote: post #53

The law as is written mainly targets social media platforms. For an OS to comply, all it needs to do is provide a field during account creation that records the user's date of birth as supplied by the user. There is no onus on the operator to confirm the veracity of this information, or even record it anywhere other than the local OS install itself. I think we're safe.

And how will you use a library computer?

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#144

Post by 1718627440 »

tokai wrote: post #111
ActorNightly wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually see the golden lining here >"Operating system provider" means a person or entity that develops, licenses, or controls the operating system software on a computer, mobile device, or any other general purpose computing device. I.e Linux will most likely to be immune, since its not tied to a particular computer. Which just means Linux stay winning. It already made big headway in the video game space, so its p…

All the distros are the providers here. The Linux kernel is not an operating system.

Since GNU(or other)/Linux OSes allow the sysadmin to compose the OS out of parts and change them, the final OS is created by the sysadmin. That's what makes distributing binary software so annoying for maintainers, every installation can be it's own snowflake OS.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#145

Post by rkomorn »

nlitened wrote: post #118
naikrovek wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slippery slopes are a logical fallacy. Every single decision moving you down the slope is intentional. No sliding occurs if nothing actively pushes things down the slide. Accordingly, it is never too late to lobby against these things.

> Slippery slopes are a logical fallacy How is this a counter-argument? I often read this, as if there's some international trusted organization of logical thinkers that has approved inclusion of slippery slope to a list of logical fallacies that must never be invoked in a conversation. Every single time five years later it turns out that the slope actually was slippery.

I don't think their comment was meant as a counter-argument.

I read it as a call to action: things only go down the slope if they're pushed that way, so now is the time to try and prevent said push.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#146

Post by 0xbadcafebee » 

  > the Children's Social Media Safety Act
  > 
  > provide an accessible interface at account setup that requires an account holder to indicate the birth date, age, or both
Thank goodness kids can't lie about their age!

  > provide an operator who has requested a signal with respect to a particular user a signal that identifies the user's age by category
Wait - if this is just to pass a signal to an operator ("social media site"), why can't the "operator" just ask for the age themselves?

Answer: they don't want to be liable and get fined $400 Million, like Meta got fined, for letting kids on social media. (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/05/business/meta-children-da...)

This is why Meta is forcing this legislation through nation-wide. They are forcing Google/Apple to take the liability, despite it not actually being Google or Apple that's providing the "harmful" social media. Meta are doing this state-by-state so nobody can track that it's them. Easier than pushing at a federal level, and raises fewer red flags from news media.

Since Google and Apple won't want to accept this liability either, the next step is requiring digital IDs and third-party verification to prove the user is of age. This will enable tracking of all users, whatever app or website they go to. Bills requiring this are already being passed at state and federal level.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#147

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

SoftTalker wrote: post #96
Slow_Hand wrote: post #7

If I’m not mistaken, Meta has been lobbying heavily for all of these age-verification bills lately. It seems their strategy is to externalize their responsibility to verify age themselves, and thus reduce their exposure to liabilities when child protection acts like COPPA are violated.

Don't kid yourself, Meta already knows the age of all its users, at least within the broad categories that this bill defines.

Legally, there's a difference between "knowing" and "accurate enough for loose cannon advertisers".

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#148

Post by maxrmk »

SoftTalker wrote: post #96
Slow_Hand wrote: post #7

If I’m not mistaken, Meta has been lobbying heavily for all of these age-verification bills lately. It seems their strategy is to externalize their responsibility to verify age themselves, and thus reduce their exposure to liabilities when child protection acts like COPPA are violated.

Don't kid yourself, Meta already knows the age of all its users, at least within the broad categories that this bill defines.

If a company relies on self reported ages, they don't "know" it well enough to satisfy COPPA. Probably. I'm not a lawyer but I do keep up with the latest in privacy enforcement and I think this is the way things are headed.

For the record, I'm against age verification laws. But I think companies are pushing for them because of liabilities they face under other laws, not because they would actually like to have the data.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#149

Post by thesuitonym »

SoftTalker wrote: post #96
Slow_Hand wrote: post #7

If I’m not mistaken, Meta has been lobbying heavily for all of these age-verification bills lately. It seems their strategy is to externalize their responsibility to verify age themselves, and thus reduce their exposure to liabilities when child protection acts like COPPA are violated.

Don't kid yourself, Meta already knows the age of all its users, at least within the broad categories that this bill defines.

Yes, but they want to show children content that is not appropriate, then claim ignorance.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#150

Post by 1shooner »

naikrovek wrote: post #104
JCattheATM wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the start of a very slippery slope.

Slippery slopes are a logical fallacy. Every single decision moving you down the slope is intentional. No sliding occurs if nothing actively pushes things down the slide. Accordingly, it is never too late to lobby against these things.

> it is never too late to lobby against these things.

Putting aside the real possibility that the ability to lobby against certain things is already actively under attack, it isn't speech alone that is being addressed, it's political and cultural momentum.

Would you call it a fallacy that making incremental rather than sudden movement in a specific direction makes it politically easier to accomplish?

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