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Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

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Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#661

Post by Mashimo »

bradley13 wrote: post #610
tashbarg wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding the Pinocchio thing: Local police said „that‘s probably insult“ and sent it to public prosecutors. Public prosecutors investigated and said „nope, free speech“. I really don’t see the problem.

Sure, but the fact remains that it was referred for criminal prosecution. They didn't follow through, this time, but the victim still had his "lesson" about insulting his betters. And Germany really did sentence people for calling Mr. Habeck "Schwachkopf", which is about as mild an insult as you can find.

> And Germany really did sentence people for calling Mr. Habeck "Schwachkopf", which is about as mild an insult as you can find.

Did not know about this, here is the wiki: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwachkopf-Aff%C3%A4re

His house was searched because of it, but he did not get sentenced for it.

Reminds me of Pimmelgate https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Grote#Umstrittene_Reaktio...

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#662

Post by BatteryMountain »

konart wrote: post #598
hliyan wrote: post #538

Why can't we handle this the same way we handle knives, guns and chainsaws: require adults to secure the device before letting minors near them? All the devices need is the ability to create limited access profiles. A human adult performs age verification by only providing the minor with creditals to a limited profile. Trying to perform that verification so far away from the minor, after they have got to the last gat…

>same way we handle knives I'm pretty sure most kids older than 12 do have access to kitchen knives. And actively use them too. I generally agree with your point. But at the same time access to the internet resouces and to gun or a chaisaw is not the same. I have no problem securing a few items if my home, but I have no control over whatever is available on the net. Sure, I can write some firewall rules or create "ki…

The knife and the knife maker doesn't have intentions to pump propaganda and porn into the childs mind. The internet is not neutral like knife. The internet has an actor on the other end (human or algorithm) that has certain intentions. Thus a child can be intentionally influence via the internet. A knife does not act on its own to influence the child's mind. So, apples and oranges. I'd argue the internet is significantly more dangerous to a child vs a knife. The internet wasn't built for children, it was never child friendly to begin with and we shouldn't mutate the internet to cater to children. Its best to treat the internet like a hostile force for a child's mind and keep children completely off it to begin with. Make it illegal for children to use a device connected to the internet, it is the parents responsibility. Same as guns. Its not the gun smith or gun sellers responsibility to keep the child safe from guns - its the parent's.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#663

Post by tashbarg »

f1shy wrote: post #549
tashbarg wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding the Pinocchio thing: Local police said „that‘s probably insult“ and sent it to public prosecutors. Public prosecutors investigated and said „nope, free speech“. I really don’t see the problem.

If you can disturb enough people that think differently, independent of the final result, you can end up silencing them. Is the same that happens with bogus DCMA claims in Youtube channels, when they negative reviews of products. For a normal guy, having the police showing up, going to court, lawyer, etc, can be a significant burden. I DO see a problem.

Yes, I agree.

But I can not see how the legal framework could be better. Insults are illegal. Prosecution needs to look into all reported cases.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#664

Post by ziml77 »

motohagiography wrote: post #525

Even steelmaning the case for age verification, does anyone really think the state is going to re-institute the innocence of childhood by filtering content and services? Of course not. There is no steelman. If you can do age, you can do identity, and the purpose of identity is recourse for authorities against truth and humor. Doing ID or this fake age verification with anything other than a physical secure element is…

What do you mean if you can do age you can do identity? If age is self-reported that's not true. Or if you need strong validation, ZKPs are possible where it is also not true.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#665

Post by bootsmann »

jwr wrote: post #517
XzAeRosho wrote: post #507

I know most of this affects only the US, but I'm wondering where this will go in the EU if the Age Verification Tech goes ahead in America. There's been lots of efforts to increase surveillance disguised as protection for kids in the EU and UK. The Swiss implementation of eID may be hint that governments may/will take the responsibility to implement and maintain the tech, but the multiple intrusions and lobbying by P…

The EU, unfortunately, has shown to be very susceptible to this kind of lobbying in the past. We regularly see legislation that is being rammed and rushed through in spite of vocal opposition. I would be very, very worried. (EU citizen)

The Swiss eID is designed the way it is to comply with the EUs digital ID proposal so I wouldn't doom this early.

(this one: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/eudi-regul...)

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#666

Post by cycomanic »

Eldt wrote: post #631
wek wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm concerned about these laws and their implications for privacy, but as a parent, I'm not sure what you mean to say parents should parent. How? What should the parent do? How would you recommend a parent protect a 13 year old who spends their time in their room and out with their friends on their phones?

Monitor computer activity, don't give them a smart phone at 13

Tell me you don't have children without saying you don't have children.

In many places it is essentially impossible for children (even younger than 13) to have a normal social live without access to a smart phone. Just some examples, many public transport providers are moving to apps as the only way to pay for fares, nearly all communication for sports clubs happens through messenger platforms, school information is typically distributed via apps as well and the list goes on (I have not even touched on the kids own social interactions).

The irony is that the people who say "parents should parent their kids online activities" the loudest, largely grew up with unrestricted computer use, in chat rooms, weird corners of the internet all by working around any restrictions that parents tried to put on them. Mainly because they were much more computer literate then the older generation.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#667

Post by Mashimo »

snackbroken wrote: post #646
Mashimo wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what's stopping my friend's 18 year old brother from lending his ID to every 14 year old at school? MitID is 2fa. You log in with username, then you have to open the app, enter password or scan biometric, then scan the QR code of the screen* and you are logged in. He would need to be next to you every time you log in. I think that is too high friction to make it feasible on large scale. * Assuming you open the webs…

> He would need to be next to you every time you log in. Or you can just text him a screenshot of the QR code. You could probably even automate this.

No, the QR code is changing every couple of seconds.

~Maybe~ you can video call, but again it's adding so much friction. Nothing is 100% secure.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#668

Post by orwin »

miroljub wrote: post #626
ozlikethewizard wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right but thats just the system working as intended? Gay marriage would still be illegal if unpopular ideas couldn't be reraised. Democracy is a balance, unfortunately you have to put up with fighting against the shit ideas as well as for the good ones.

> Right but thats just the system working as intended? No, it is a one way street and thus creates an imbalance. EU regimes never push new legislation that gives more rights to their citizens, only try to limit them again and again. > Gay marriage would still be illegal if unpopular ideas couldn't be reraised. Gay marriage is a good example. It got passed despite being unpopular. In many countries where it was pushed…

I don't think any EU directive on gay marriage exist, and directives (accompanied by fines) is the main way for the EU to try to push laws on states (the other way if having a citizen go the the EUCJ against his own state, but that almost never ends in law changes).

> I consider it just a shell to push unpopular and undemocratic decisions to their member states, so lobbyists don't have to bribe everyone, just the EU regime.

Which decisions? GDPR? DMA?

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#669

Post by AJRF »

redm wrote: post #654

The question I keep coming back to regarding the recent debate around age verification is "Why now?" I'm 47, and I started using the internet in my early teens through BBS gateways. I've seen every age of the Internet, and there's always been widely available pornographic materials. Why all of a sudden is this a crisis? Perhaps I'm missing something?

Did any groups recently lose control of a narrative?

Are people in that group powerful, influential and wealthy?

Would that group benefit from being able to use state power against individuals who just won't stop shining light on injustice?

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#670

Post by marcta »

Mashimo wrote: post #576
snackbroken wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's no information provided beyond proof-of-age, what's stopping my friend's 18 year old brother from lending his ID to every 14 year old at school? IRL that's negated by the liquor store clerk looking at the kid who is obviously underage and seeing that his face doesn't match the borrowed card he just nervously presented.

> what's stopping my friend's 18 year old brother from lending his ID to every 14 year old at school? MitID is 2fa. You log in with username, then you have to open the app, enter password or scan biometric, then scan the QR code of the screen* and you are logged in. He would need to be next to you every time you log in. I think that is too high friction to make it feasible on large scale. * Assuming you open the webs…

If people have to go through OS auth flow each time they open a website, that will drive everyone mad. One of the key motivators for politicians is not making everyone mad, so the polls don't drop.

Also, I reckon most children know the password for their parent's phone or computer, and many more will find out if there is a highly motivational factor for doing so. How many exhausted parents just toss their phone to their child to stop them whining?

I suppose it could be a biometric sign-in with facial recognition or fingerprint, but again, that's a tonne of friction for the whole web.

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