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Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

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Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#541

Post by abc123abc123 »

jwr wrote: post #517
XzAeRosho wrote: post #507

I know most of this affects only the US, but I'm wondering where this will go in the EU if the Age Verification Tech goes ahead in America. There's been lots of efforts to increase surveillance disguised as protection for kids in the EU and UK. The Swiss implementation of eID may be hint that governments may/will take the responsibility to implement and maintain the tech, but the multiple intrusions and lobbying by P…

The EU, unfortunately, has shown to be very susceptible to this kind of lobbying in the past. We regularly see legislation that is being rammed and rushed through in spite of vocal opposition. I would be very, very worried. (EU citizen)

Yep. Sadly the EU is more or less lost, and freedom online will be squashed. I would not be surprised if age verification will tie in with the EU digital wallet, and with the EU democracy shield surveillance project, so that any opposition to Brussels ideological stance will get you disconnected from your bank, money, purchases, and your ability to ID yourself.

Basically, the chinese, through WTO, managed to utilize corona to show politicians, regardless of color, the enormous power of complete digital control of the population.

Our spineless and incompetent EU politicians thought it very erotic, and are now ramming it down our throats.

I don't really see a way to stop this apart from moving to south america or africa, to a small country with a weak government.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#542

Post by abc123abc123 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #523
XzAeRosho wrote: post #507

I know most of this affects only the US, but I'm wondering where this will go in the EU if the Age Verification Tech goes ahead in America. There's been lots of efforts to increase surveillance disguised as protection for kids in the EU and UK. The Swiss implementation of eID may be hint that governments may/will take the responsibility to implement and maintain the tech, but the multiple intrusions and lobbying by P…

I think age verification laws are good in principle - there's a lot of stuff on the internet that people should be protected from. But it's the manner of age verification that is the issue. The EU has zero knowledge proof age verification systems, e.g. through your bank, which are secure and don't involve sending a copy of your ID and / or face scan to a dodgy US based 3rd party.

Zero knowledge is not true. All chains rely, ultimately, on a place where ID:s are stored, and from there, they will leak. That place can also be engineered to undo the zero knowledge design. Couple that with the already in place, surveillance by ISP:s within the EU, and it becomes obvious that zero knowledge is a scam, and only valid under unreal conditions that will never apply in the EU, and only in isolation, and not looking at the entire system.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#543

Post by bluGill »

hliyan wrote: post #538

Why can't we handle this the same way we handle knives, guns and chainsaws: require adults to secure the device before letting minors near them? All the devices need is the ability to create limited access profiles. A human adult performs age verification by only providing the minor with creditals to a limited profile. Trying to perform that verification so far away from the minor, after they have got to the last gat…

I want my kids to grow up in a world where they can install linux themselves. I don't want them to grow up in a world where they can't walk to a neighborhood park without me.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#546

Post by enoint »

motohagiography wrote: post #525

Even steelmaning the case for age verification, does anyone really think the state is going to re-institute the innocence of childhood by filtering content and services? Of course not. There is no steelman. If you can do age, you can do identity, and the purpose of identity is recourse for authorities against truth and humor. Doing ID or this fake age verification with anything other than a physical secure element is…

What makes you think Debian leads have taken a stand?

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#547

Post by armchairhacker »

Apparently most of the “original” report was done by Claude (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47366804). And now paraphrased on various ad-space (and in this case affiliate link) sellers, probably also by Claude. Claude is the only real journalist here.

Personally I’d rather not see reposts of posts this recent, especially LLM posts.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#548

Post by pgwhalen »

cwmoore wrote: post #527
pgwhalen wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lobbying is literally half of what representative democracy is. First, you elect representatives to office. Then, you try to get them to do what you want. The latter is lobbying. Of course, when money becomes a significant portion of how the second one happens, things can get complicated.

I’m not so sure. First the representatives are selected to be elected. A significant portion of both of your suggested halves are “complicated” by money.

You could break it down further if you like, yes.

Everything is complicated by money. I wish we were better about shielding politics from money. So much about society in general is about money, it ain’t easy.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#549

Post by f1shy »

tashbarg wrote: post #536
bradley13 wrote: post #505

The article makes one mistake: praising Europe for having a better approach. Governments here are pushing hard to force ID requirements. Sure, they start by pretending it's "for the children" and they "only want age verification". They also claim that e-IDs will be voluntary. Camel. Nose. Tent. These are the same governments that file criminal charges when you compare lying leader to Pinocchio (Germany). The UK recor…

Regarding the Pinocchio thing: Local police said „that‘s probably insult“ and sent it to public prosecutors. Public prosecutors investigated and said „nope, free speech“. I really don’t see the problem.

If you can disturb enough people that think differently, independent of the final result, you can end up silencing them. Is the same that happens with bogus DCMA claims in Youtube channels, when they negative reviews of products. For a normal guy, having the police showing up, going to court, lawyer, etc, can be a significant burden. I DO see a problem.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#550

Post by aleph_minus_one »

varispeed wrote: post #512

Why "lobbying" is not treated as corruption? This kind of corporate influence should be illegal.

Everybody lobbies for their own interests.

The issue that should rather worry you is that people

- don't delete their Meta/Facebook/WhatsApp/Instagram/Threads/... account because of this proposal,

- don't strongly urge friends and colleagues to do the same.

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