To be fair, nature has an obsession with growth too.
One solution to our social maladies is a kind totalitarian dictator with total surveillance.
Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn
151–160 of 245 posts
Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn
#152May not be a problem if the trend continues that wealthy/high-consumption cultures choose to stop reproducing?
That started in my country 75 years ago. Not a single year has our population dropped. We simply introduce fungible economic tokens aka workers from the poorer places and will go far to keep this going even if it's unpopular. When that too stops so does the music as a baffling amount of the economy and society and it's support systems is predicated on endless inflationary growth. Frankly nobody in this game of musica…
> Not a single year has our population dropped. We simply introduce fungible economic tokens aka workers from the poorer places and will go far to keep this going even if it's unpopular.
That'll only be feasible for so long, since birth rates are dropping pretty much everywhere.
Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn
#153When I was a child, I was spending my summers at my grandparents. They had a cozy house in the village. They worked the land, they had a few animals. They grew their food. They sold some wine and fruit at the market. They had a big house, land, clean air, clean water and they were healthy. They celebrated the holidays, had many friends, went to church, weddings, funerals, etc. Villagers always greeted them and stoppe…
Your problem is that you were happy as a child and unhappy as an adult. That's a personal problem, and has little to do with rural or urban living. As other commenters have pointed out, you can most likely afford to buy a farm if you really want that lifestyle. I suspect you don't, because it sucks major ass to have to do manual labor all day, to eat almost entirely the same things and see the same people for decades…
The comment was for the article 'Obsession with growth is destroying nature'. Read it. It's not about me personally.
In fact, I live a very comfortable life in a beautiful city.
But this comfort has a price, described in the article. It's huge. It's also not static, it's growing and accelerating. Our children will have to pay these bills in one way or another.
What I do with my life (or you with yours) has zero consequence on this, the process can't be stopped. But it will one day, because math.
Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn
#154Of course, the MBAs pushing for growth missed on physics class that it is impossible for everyone to growth expontentially.
MBA’s have a goal for growth.
That doesn’t mean it will happen.
Lots of companies fail or shrink.
Also, it’s not an MBA/capitalism thing. Every socialist leader throughout history promised more growth, they just thought it should be more equitable. Ever heard of Five Year Plans? They’re still going on in places around the world.
Having a goal for growth is a global phenomenon across all economic systems. If you feel like this is a problem, then it’s much larger than any one job type or even any one economic system.
Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yet population growth is slowing while our access to resources is growing rapidly. Human population growth is not exponential. That’s so obvious that it’s hard to take anything about this argument seriously. Biology isn’t a good proxy for society-scale economic changes.
we had nearly 2 centuries of roughly exponential growth. ended in the 60s but not everyone got the memo
Is "roughly exponential growth" being used as a synonym for "growth"?
Exponential is used as a scare word. It's not just growth, it's exponential growth! Run and scream in fright! Because if you don't do what I say you must do, we are exponentially doomed. Dooooomed!
Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a completely nostalgic, one-sided view of the urban vs. rural divide. It's also ignorant of the data on the impact of cities on nature. Cities have a lower carbon footprint per capita, lower land use per capita, people own fewer cars, use public transportation more often. If everyone lived in a city, nature would be better off. People live in cities because they are vibrant, they have culture, the arts, intel…
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> If we didn't have cities, we also wouldn't have eight billion people in the world.
Could you break down the logic that leads you to this conclusion?
Im sure it's deeper than "if cities disappeared right now, a lot of people would disappear with them"
Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn
#157When I was a child, I was spending my summers at my grandparents. They had a cozy house in the village. They worked the land, they had a few animals. They grew their food. They sold some wine and fruit at the market. They had a big house, land, clean air, clean water and they were healthy. They celebrated the holidays, had many friends, went to church, weddings, funerals, etc. Villagers always greeted them and stoppe…
> I'm really struggling to understand what we've grown into A population of eight billion, at least three of which live in industrialized regions. My currently 99yo grandpa was born when there were approximately two billion people. He spent a huge chunk of his childhood running around barefoot. Whenever he talks about that time I can't help but think this world doesn't exist any more and hasn't for a long time now.
Running barefoot can feel nice, but in Africa wearing shoes could eliminate significant source of tropical diseases.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/nov/17/h...
Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
The lifestyle you describe is very cheap and you can certainly afford it, if you wanted. There are plenty of rural small towns you could choose from. Why not do it if it's what you think you want?
Leading a slower existence in harmony with nature and community has its trade-offs. There are so many things to consider. It's a fascinating topic. For example, if you give up access to restaurants in order to live simply, how does that impact your approach to food in general? How about losing access to a hospital? What changes do you make to prepare for, or respond to, health crises? The questions I ask above are fr…
> if you give up access to restaurants in order to live simply, how does that impact your approach to food in general?
I think many people would develop a much healthier relationship with food. We live so disconnected from the reality of all the resources and labor it actually takes to bring food to your plate that we've lost appreciation for the interconnected nature of how we live.
Oddly enough, it's the individualist style of home cooking for ourself/only our immediate family that's a departure from the more community-focused lifestyle humans once lived, where cooking and eating involved the entire tribe/community. It was a shared experience.
When people in this thread are nostalgic for a more rural lifestyle or debating rural vs urban, I think that's missing the forest for the trees. What we are really longing for is a sense of community and connection that has been lost. And that community and connection can happen no matter what the actual setting is (urban vs rural). "Where ever you go, there you are."
Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
The lifestyle you describe is very cheap and you can certainly afford it, if you wanted. There are plenty of rural small towns you could choose from. Why not do it if it's what you think you want?
You can't escape the rat race even if you hide in a cave these days. Life like that is no longer possible, at least not in Europe. I didn't write that to shame anyone. I happen to like my life in the city with all the negatives. But sometimes I think about this - is all this 'comfort' worth the destruction of nature ?
What are these "rat races"? What makes you think you're doing something worthless? Do you really believe everything is worthless? That's preposterous and nihilistic. If what you are doing is worthless, do something that isn't.
Grandiosity and pride may make you feel unsatisfied, but that's a problem with ego. Our culture is big on empty posturing and hollow spectacle. You don't need to buy into it. Humanity is how it is; perpetually flawed and immature. The main thing you need to escape are your own vices. Your vices are what give foolishness and evil their power over you.
While the secondary purpose of a job is the good it produces, the primary purpose is your growth as a human being. The job, like all other aspects of life, is an occasion to work out your virtue and your humanity in the concrete. Measure your existence according to the objective good of the inner life, not against external things.
Do not try to "immanentize the eschaton". Do not try to locate transcendence in the immanent. That's a major source of much misery. People have an intrinsic yearning for transcendence. When it is misdirected, it results in the hedonistic and ultimately fatal and fruitless hunt for the transcendental within the immanent, of "vertical divinity" within "horizontal creation". Some try to simulate transcendence within the immanent with all sorts of silly gimmicks, but predictably, this always fails. One must locate the transcendence where it actually is; everything is death and superstition. Your job is not the right place to look for it.
Re: Obsession with growth is destroying nature, 150 countries warn
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
But you do realize that all the positives are mostly hedonistic ? Yeah, there are more places to enjoy yourself and have fun, more entertainment. I'm passionate about going out to clubs, electronic music events, concerts, restaurants, flying around on a plane or driving my car on the endless roads. All of this is great, but according to TFA and my own experience, we're absolutely shitting on the natural world to have…
Don't project the emptiness of your existence on the rest of us. Cities are the only reason we have orchestras and ballets, vibrant sports leagues, and other things central to family life. I do not want my kids to have to live in a "village" too small to field a brass quintet.
> Don't project the emptiness of your existence
The irony of such an unnecessarily hostile opening line is ... Absolute cinema
(It's ok if you don't get it, Jeff. This comment is for other people)