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Why I love FreeBSD

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41–50 of 270 posts

Re: Why I love FreeBSD

#41
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My current home server passed 10 years in the autnum, but I've been running FreeBSD on servers since around 2000. The main gripe is probably Docker and/or software depending on Linux-isms that can't be run natively without resorting to bhyve or smth alike that.

[flagged]

I've fixed too many linux-isms in code manually over the years, pkg/ports does what it should but since *nix tradition relies on hardcoded paths I often wanted out-of-tree builds for various software.

And that's the thing, as I grow older I feel more and more that I just want the parts of computing that I don't want to _care_ about to be stupid simple.

If I'm doing a program needing a recent version of some language that doesn't have a FreeBSD port yet and some database behind it, I don't really want to configure it all manually because I don't particularly care for porting the runtime or managing the database (that isn't exposed to the outside world anyhow).

This is stuff where I don't want a large CI pipe or other management (or needing to remember to upgrade the packages if I upgrade the hosting OS).

Stuff like this is why "the clouds are winning", friction should be linear depending on the effort I want to put into managing something.

But going for real HW or even VPS a places an "upgrade tax" on me because I can't just let non-public services like an isolated DB just ride-along over major versions (maybe Jails with isolated userlands could be an option, but that becomes painful instead when needing newer versions of the application behind the veil).

Re: Why I love FreeBSD

#42
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cohesiveness. Gnome was born out from GNU and today it's just RedHatware, and overtime you will only get a RedHat/Flatpak/Wayland OS with no alternatives but brainless Pacman repacks over and over as they will provide near nothing against some Fedora Silverblue install. And, yes, overtime all Fedoras will be Silverblue rebases with different desktops, toolbox + RPMs for concurrent development environments (if any, as…

Icaza hasn't been involved in the GNU/Linux space for years iirc, even if he has it's been limited. Also, what the fuck are you going on about? for the record, I also don't like the current direction of the standard "Linux" desktop but also am not schizoposting about it Also, let's pray that's the future for GNU because I think the hurd is pretty darn cool

More like schizoposting, I'm just watching what RHOS it's becoming into, some weird NT/Solaris hybrid with a non X11 layer.

And, yes, Hurd with Guix it's where the potential of reproducible distros lies on. True separate services, namespaces, non-root perms to mount both local and remote FS' (no FUSE needed) and so on.

This is closer to what RMS dreamt about. Hurd was about to recreate Unix but giving the users almost full rights without compromising the systems' security. And, yes, I know OG Emacs and ITS had no permissions at all and it was a 'free for all OS', but times changed.

With 9front and namespaces/separate servers you get a similar environment but even more modular.

Re: Why I love FreeBSD

#43
One of my favorite FreeBSD features is first-class support for ZFS boot environments. These have been working in FreeBSD/Solaris since 2008[0]. Having each boot environment available as a ZFS snapshot capable of being managed the same way as any other dataset, capable of being sent and received, is such a powerful feature. I dilligently watch the immutable/atomic Linux space to see when something implements this in the same fashion.

Ubuntu could have been the one, but they reversed course after dropping support for Zsys in 2022[1].

If there are others, then please let me know, but as far as I can tell, the closest approximations in Linux are:

- Btrfs with Snapper in OpenSuse Tumbleweed/MicroOS

- Snapshot Manager/Boom in RHEL

- OStree in Fedora Atomic, CarbonOS, EndlessOS

- Bootable container implementations in Fedora CoreOS, RHEL10, CarbonOS, Bazzite, BlendOS, etc.

- Snaps in Ubuntu Core

- Generations in NixOS and Guix

- A/B update mechanism in ChromeOS, IncusOS

- OverlayFS in Nitrux Linux

- Ad-hoc implementations with Arch, Alpine, etc.

Excluding the ad-hoc implementations, only OpenSuse and Red Hat approaches allow you to treat your system image and system data the same way. They're great, but fundamentally incompatible, and neither has caught on with other distributions. Capabilities of both approaches are limited compared to ZFS.

The strangest part of the Linux situation IMHO is, every time ZFS on Linux is discussed, someone will invariably bring up XFS. For the past decade, XFS on Linux contains support for Copy-on-Write (CoW) and snapshots via relinking. If this is the preferred path on Linux (for users who don't want checksumming of ZFS/Btrfs/Bcachefs), then how come no major distros besides Red Hat have embraced it[2] to provide an update rollback functionality?

I concede that most of the other approaches do provide a higher level level of determinism for what your root system looks like after an upgrade. It's powerful when you can test that system as an OCI container (or as a VM with Nix/Guix). FWIW, FreeBSD can approximate this with the ability to use it's boot environments as a jail[3].

[0] https://daemonforums.org/showthread.php?t=7099

[1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1968...

[2] https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_...

[3] https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=bectl&sektion=8&ma...

Re: Why I love FreeBSD

#44
post #18

My home server has been running FreeBSD for ten years now, and it has never let me down. Except for one time I got fresh with /dev/speaker and triggered a spontaneous reboot (I don't know if it's FreeBSD's fault or the hardware, though). I delayed upgrading to 15.0 after it was released, but last weekend I finally did it, and it left me wondering why I hadn't done it sooner, because it went quickly and smoothly. Is t…

ZFS on FreeBSD is first class. I had an old FreeNAS raid z5 array on 5x 500GB disks that I wanted to check 4 years after decommissioning the system. I put together a temporary machine with all the disks plugged in and without doing anything the live FreeBSD image found and configured the array. I was instantly able to look through the file system and even dump it to my current FreeBSD server with almost 0 effort. I was sold after that. These days I prefer to run small systems and basic services. I don't want webguis or docker images anymore.

Re: Why I love FreeBSD

#45
post #18

My home server has been running FreeBSD for ten years now, and it has never let me down. Except for one time I got fresh with /dev/speaker and triggered a spontaneous reboot (I don't know if it's FreeBSD's fault or the hardware, though). I delayed upgrading to 15.0 after it was released, but last weekend I finally did it, and it left me wondering why I hadn't done it sooner, because it went quickly and smoothly. Is t…

My current home server passed 10 years in the autnum, but I've been running FreeBSD on servers since around 2000. The main gripe is probably Docker and/or software depending on Linux-isms that can't be run natively without resorting to bhyve or smth alike that.

You could just use podman.

Re: Why I love FreeBSD

#46
post #18

My home server has been running FreeBSD for ten years now, and it has never let me down. Except for one time I got fresh with /dev/speaker and triggered a spontaneous reboot (I don't know if it's FreeBSD's fault or the hardware, though). I delayed upgrading to 15.0 after it was released, but last weekend I finally did it, and it left me wondering why I hadn't done it sooner, because it went quickly and smoothly. Is t…

>Is there anything FreeBSD can do that, say, Debian cannot?

ZFS boot environments.

One could install Debian's root on ZFS by following the OpenZFS documentation guide, combine it with ZFSBootMenu (or similar), but there won't be any upstream support from the Debian project itself.

The Nitrux Linux distribution is based on Debian and provides an immutable feature similar to boot environments, but you can't treat your immutable boot images the same way you can treat your mutable data like how you can with ZFS datasets on FreeBSD.

Re: Why I love FreeBSD

#47
I love OpenBSD for similar reasons, except, I still run it as my primary desktop and on an old Chromebook. It just works. No drama with updates. Upgrade every six months. I'd be lost without it.

Re: Why I love FreeBSD

#48
I think I finally know what to do with my second NUC: FreeBSD.

I'm in the process of converting and consolidating all my home infra into a mono-compose, for the simple reason I don't want to fiddle with shit, I just want to set-and-forget. The joy of technology was in communications and experiences, not having to dive through abstraction layers to figure out why something was being fiddly. Containers promised to remove the fiddliness (as every virtualization advancement inevitably promises), and now I'm forced to either fiddle with Docker and its root security issues, fiddle with Podman and reconfiguring the OS for lower security so containers don't stop (or worse, converting compose to systemd files to make them services), or fiddle with Kubernetes to make things work with a myriad of ancillary services and CRDs for enterprises, not homelabs.

For two years now, there's been a pretty consistent campaign of love-letters for the BSDs that keep tugging at what I love about technology: that the whole point was to enable you to spend more time living, rather than wrangling what a computer does and how it does it. The concept of jails where I can just run software again, no abstractions needed, and trust it to not misbehave? Amazing, I want to learn more.

So yeah, in lieu of setting up the second NUC as a Debian HA node for Docker/QEMU failover, I think I'm going to slap FreeBSD on it and try porting my workloads to it via Jails. Worst case scenario, I learn something new; best case scenario, I finally get what I want and can finally catch up on my books, movies, shows, and music instead of constantly fiddling with why Plex or Jellyfin or my RSS Aggregator stopped functioning, again.

Re: Why I love FreeBSD

#49
Early in my Unix-ish at home journey (26-ish years ago) I tried FreeBSD. It was so Unix because, well, it is. An operating system, not a collection of parts. I found at the time in Linux land Debian felt similar.

But there is always pressure for more features, more bloat. In Linux, on the plus side, I can plug in some random gadget and in most cases it just works. And any laptop that's a few years old, you can just install Fedora from its bootable live image, and it will work. Secure boot, suspend, Wifi, the special buttons on the keyboard, and so on. But the downside is enormous bloat and yes, often the kind of tinkering you really don't want to do any more, such as the Brother laser printer drivers still being shipped as 32-bit binaries and the installer silently failing because one particular 32-bit dependency wasn't autoinstalled. Or having to get an Ubuntu-dedicated installer (Displaylink!) to run on Fedora.

But here you have the "mainstream" Unix-ish OS absorbing all the bleeding edge stuff, all the bloat. Allowing FreeBSD free reign to be pure, with a higher average quality of user, which sets the tone of the whole scene. An echo of the old days, like Usenet before "Eternal September" and before Canter & Siegel - for those old enough to remember how it all felt back then.

Re: Why I love FreeBSD

#50
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one prevents You from installing Linux in a Bhyve VM and running Docker there. Overhead of FreeBSD Bhyve Hypervisor is about 0.5% (measured in benchmarks) so You loose nothing. Here You have easy and complete jumpstart into Bhyve in FreeBSD: - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2023/08/18/freebsd-bhyve-virt... Regards, vermaden

Isn't that no longer necessary? Doesn't linuxulator + podman suffice?

> Doesn't linuxulator + podman suffice?

No it is not reliable enough. Some syscalls not implemented, there are edge case issues with procfs etc. Best to execute in a Linux VM.

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