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Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#61

Post by itp »

staunch wrote: post #25
itp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you can help me understand this analogy a little better. You say that it's similar to when Microsoft decided to bundle IE into Windows, but the comparison isn't totally obvious to me at first blush. Microsoft went to great (and often illegal?) lengths to prevent customers from considering or being able to make use of alternatives. Consumers had a great deal of lock in -- a user of a Windows computer often had s…

The thing that's similar to what Microsoft did with IE is that Google is leveraging its monopoly position to compete in new businesses. Search "headphones" on Google and you'll see the massive ad spot taken up by Google Shopping. They've done similar things with the way they integrate Google Local/Zagat into local business searches. That's the equivalent of the kind of deep integration Microsoft did with IE. IE wasn'…

I don't feel like you've addressed my questions yet, though. Unlike in the Microsoft scenario, I don't see any significant barriers keeping a user from switching to a competing product. There are other search engines, certainly ones that don't promote other Google services. Google makes it pretty easy to download your data and leave if you want to. So doesn't the continuing success of Google as a search engine suggest that users continue to like the results being returned?

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#62

Post by bocalogic »

Well, if you are not satisfied with google you can always use bing and yahoo. I do suggest you search for the same thing on each service to see the differences in your rankings.

One thing I did not see mentioned was the new google rollout on adwords and merchant center (google base feed). Google use to allow free submissions of products into the shopping segment, but now all of your product submissions must be linked to an adwords account by which google adwords can charge you. It steps directly on nextags formula.

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#64

Post by gscott »

Google Search is becoming more like adwords. They just removed a site I manage because it doesn't meet the Google quality guidelines easyfastcheaponlinetrafficeschool.com. When they remove your site its like disappearing from the internet... I had to switch the site to a new domain and the loss in sales has been about $70,000+ so far not to mention spending more on adwords.

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#65

Post by omd »

itp wrote: post #61
staunch wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that's similar to what Microsoft did with IE is that Google is leveraging its monopoly position to compete in new businesses. Search "headphones" on Google and you'll see the massive ad spot taken up by Google Shopping. They've done similar things with the way they integrate Google Local/Zagat into local business searches. That's the equivalent of the kind of deep integration Microsoft did with IE. IE wasn'…

I don't feel like you've addressed my questions yet, though. Unlike in the Microsoft scenario, I don't see any significant barriers keeping a user from switching to a competing product. There are other search engines, certainly ones that don't promote other Google services. Google makes it pretty easy to download your data and leave if you want to. So doesn't the continuing success of Google as a search engine sugges…

>I don't see any significant barriers keeping a user from switching to a competing product.

This is the difference, or the similarity however you look at it, between Google and Microsoft. You claim that the barriers Microsoft put up to prevent users from switching were significant, but Google's aren't. I disagree. In the literal sense no one was locked in with Windows and users were free to install other browsers or even switch to Linux or Mac.

The complaint was that Microsoft was making it difficult for the average user to do so. That's the same complaint these companies have about Google. For you it might be an easy task to download your data from Gmail or Chrome but I'm sure for the majority of users switching search engines is just as obscure as switching browsers.

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#66

Post by alexkearns »

Our web app has recently been hit by a Google algorithm change. Search traffic has fallen off a cliff. If it continues, it could be a threat to our business.

We have never done any underhand SEO. We haven't done any SEO at all. People love the app but now, alas, they can't find it.

Ironically, just before we fell out of the search rankings, a Google developer evangelist got in touch to say how much they liked our app and that Google would like to partner with our app on an upcoming initiative.

If there are any Google engineers here who would like to help, I'd be most appreciative.

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#67

Post by itp »

omd wrote: post #65
itp wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't feel like you've addressed my questions yet, though. Unlike in the Microsoft scenario, I don't see any significant barriers keeping a user from switching to a competing product. There are other search engines, certainly ones that don't promote other Google services. Google makes it pretty easy to download your data and leave if you want to. So doesn't the continuing success of Google as a search engine sugges…

>I don't see any significant barriers keeping a user from switching to a competing product. This is the difference, or the similarity however you look at it, between Google and Microsoft. You claim that the barriers Microsoft put up to prevent users from switching were significant, but Google's aren't. I disagree. In the literal sense no one was locked in with Windows and users were free to install other browsers or…

Thanks for reminding me to question my assumptions and think about my perspective. I'm going to have to ask around and try to get a sense of how some of my decidedly non-technical friends and family members view Google, search engines, etc.

I'm still not quite convinced about the Microsoft/Google parallels, though. I just spend some time reviewing the history of Microsoft litigation and behaviors in this respect. While admittedly no one was literally locked in with Windows, Microsoft had a long history of establishing artificial barriers to prevent people from leaving Microsoft products while simultaneously using that position to launch new products/services and drive competitors out of business. At the risk of sounding like a Google apologist, I feel like I'm more likely to see Google make decisions that seemingly place interoperability, standards-compliance, etc. potentially above their own business needs.

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#68

Post by wrath »

I work for a company that relied primarily on Google for it's source of revenue. About a year ago our traffic dramatically dropped because of a change in Google's algorithm. We always had plans to diversify our business but we never did. At the time it hit us hard, but we were able refocused our business. As a consequence our business is far healthier than it was in the past. Google is only a fraction of our traffic generation strategy, essentially we have a sustainable business model now.

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#69

Post by timothya »

ridiculous_fish wrote: post #38
timothya wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced that Google moves it's own results up as part of the organic search results. Bing puts Google Finance first before Yahoo Finance as well. Regardless of it's popularity, its position may simply because of other signals in the ranking algorithm.

Google freely admits to putting their own links first. Here's what Marissa Mayer said in 2007: We didn't actually have Google Finance until about a year ago. Up until then we were ordering the links based on various published metrics... We had the five top finance sites in their order of their popularity listed there. So we rolled out Google Finance, we put the Google link first. (You can watch it at http://www.youtu…

I was talking about organic search results; i.e., the standard list of links that come up for a query.

Marissa was talking about this: http://i.imgur.com/RQhOH.png

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#70

Post by greggoodson »

Wow - when will this guy stop? This isn't new. Every few months, Jeff Katz goes on a Google rant. And it's getting old.

From 2011. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405311190337400457658... http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/08/nextag-ceo-google-is-a-mono...

Having worked in-house for several large online retailers as well as a handful of independent clients on the side, the comparison shopping engine industry was my obsession for several years. CSEs can make you money, but it doesn't take long to figure out all CSEs do is play a game of "sell traffic to retailers for cheaper than they can buy it themselves." After 12 months of CSEs, it was obvious that being a "CSE expert" wasn't a good career path for me.

Arguably, Nextag's four competitors are Google Shopping, Pricegrabber, Shopzilla, and Shopping.com. Google Shopping was free to list your products for the longest time (until earlier this year), which provided for a much better user experience. Between 2008 and 2010, Google Shopping's marketshare kept eating away at these other CSEs. It was clear their product was better on all fronts.

I think it should also be noted that in 2005, Shopzilla was acquired by Scripps for $525M. Scripps sold Shopzilla to a private equity company for $165M last year. Pricegrabber was bought in 2005 as well - $485M price tag. They just got dumped for ~$80M.

Most CSEs were founded in the 90s; you could argue that their models haven't changed since. It's not working anymore. Take it with a grain of salt, but peek at Google trends and Nextag's Alexa site info:

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/nextag.com http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=nextag

Nextag's services are becoming obsolete. I find it concerning that their response is to "double its spending on Google paid search advertising in the last five months". I guarantee you they're seeing the same kind of traffic patterns in Bing as well.

Nextag is just a whole bunch of click arbitrage silliness. Don't drink the kool-aid.

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