Curious how this evolves when agents start retaining memory across projects. Feels like that could change how we think about the tool loop.
What is agentic engineering?
71–80 of 109 posts
Re: What is agentic engineering?
#72After three months of seeing what agentic engineering produces first-hand, I think there's going to be a pretty big correction. Not saying that AI doesn't have a place, and that models aren't getting better, but there is a seriously delusional state in this industry right now..
Yes I'm with you. I spent the last 2 months heavily doing "agentic engineering" and I don't think it's optimal to work like that as a default.
LLMs are for sure useful and a productivity boost but generating 99% of your code with it is way overdoing it.
Re: What is agentic engineering?
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
> “Agentic engineering” feels like the response of engineers who use AI to write code, but want to maintain the skill distinction to the pure “vibe coders.” If there's such. The border is vague at most. There're "known unknowns" and "unknown unknowns" when working with systems. In this terms, there's no distinction between vibe-coding and agentic engineering.
My definition to "vibe coding" is the one where you prompt without ever looking at the code that's being produced. The moment you start paying attention to the code it's not vibe coding any more. Update: I added that definition to the article: https://simonwillison.net/guides/agentic-engineering-pattern...
What if you review 50%? Or 10%? Or only 1%, is it not vibe coding yet?
Where is the borderline?
Re: What is agentic engineering?
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
My definition to "vibe coding" is the one where you prompt without ever looking at the code that's being produced. The moment you start paying attention to the code it's not vibe coding any more. Update: I added that definition to the article: https://simonwillison.net/guides/agentic-engineering-pattern...
What if you review 50%? Or 10%? Or only 1%, is it not vibe coding yet? Where is the borderline?
I think the borderline is when you take responsibility for the code, and stop blaming the LLM for any mistakes.
That's the level of responsibility I want to see from people using LLMs in a professional context. I want them to take full ownership of the changes they are producing.
Re: What is agentic engineering?
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
My definition to "vibe coding" is the one where you prompt without ever looking at the code that's being produced. The moment you start paying attention to the code it's not vibe coding any more. Update: I added that definition to the article: https://simonwillison.net/guides/agentic-engineering-pattern...
What if you review 50%? Or 10%? Or only 1%, is it not vibe coding yet? Where is the borderline?
Have to consult the Definition Engineers to find out
Re: What is agentic engineering?
#76[flagged]
Re: What is agentic engineering?
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
What if you review 50%? Or 10%? Or only 1%, is it not vibe coding yet? Where is the borderline?
I think the borderline is when you take responsibility for the code, and stop blaming the LLM for any mistakes. That's the level of responsibility I want to see from people using LLMs in a professional context. I want them to take full ownership of the changes they are producing.
I don't blame the agent for mistakes in my vibe coded personal software, it's always my fault. To me it's like this:
80%+: You don't understand the codebase. Correctness is ensured through manual testing and asking the agent to find bugs. You're only concerned with outcomes, the code is sloppy.
50%: You understand the structure of the codebase, you are skimming changes in your session, but correctness is still ensured mostly through manual testing and asking the agent to review. Code quality is questionable but you're keeping it from spinning out of control. Critically, you are hands on enough to ensure security, data integrity, the stuff that really counts at the end of the day.
20%-: You've designed the structure of the codebase, you are writing most of the code, you are probably only copypasting code from a chatbot if you're generating code at all. The code is probably well made and maintainable.
Re: What is agentic engineering?
#78I don't think we should be making this distinction. We're still engaged in software engineering. This isn't a new discipline, it's a new technique. We're still using testing, requirements gathering, etc. to ensure we've produced the correct product and that the product is correct. Just with more automation.
I agree, partly. I feel the main goal of the term “agentic engineering” is to distinguish the new technique of software engineering from “Vibe Coding.” Many felt vibe coding insinuated you didn’t know what you were doing; that you weren’t _engineering_. In other words, “Agentic engineering” feels like the response of engineers who use AI to write code, but want to maintain the skill distinction to the pure “vibe code…
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Re: What is agentic engineering?
#79Markdown engineers try to rebrand yet again.
Re: What is agentic engineering?
#80I don't think we should be making this distinction. We're still engaged in software engineering. This isn't a new discipline, it's a new technique. We're still using testing, requirements gathering, etc. to ensure we've produced the correct product and that the product is correct. Just with more automation.
Actually, if you defer all your coding decisions to agents, then you're not doing engineering at all. You don't say you're doing "contractor engineering" when you pay some folks to write your app for you. At that point, you are squarely in the management field.
If you're producing a technological artifact and you are ensuring it has certain properties while working within certain constraints, then in my mind you're engineering and it's a question of the degree of rigor. Engineers in the "hard engineering" fields (eg mechanical engineers, civil engineers) a rule don't build the things they design, they spend a lot of time managing/working with contractors.