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What is agentic engineering?

simonwillison.net

21–30 of 109 posts

Re: What is agentic engineering?

#21

The term feels broken when adhering to standard naming conventions, such as Mechanical Engineering or Electrical Engineering, where "Agentic Engineering" would logically refer to the engineering of agents

Yeah, Armin Ronacher has been calling it "agentic coding" which does at least make it clear that it's not a general engineering thing, but specifically a code related thing.

Re: What is agentic engineering?

#22
Sure, you could argue it's like writing code that gets optimized by the compiler for whatever CPU architecture you're using. But the main difference between layers of abstraction and agentic development is the "fuzzyness" of it. It's not deterministic. It's a lot more like managing a person.

Re: What is agentic engineering?

#23

I’ve been using the term “agentic coding” more often, because I am always shy to claim that our field rises to the level of the engineers that build bridges and rockets. I’m happy to use “agentic engineering” however, and if Simon coins it, it just might stick. :) Thanks for sharing your best practices, Simon!

I decided to go with it after z.AI used it in their GLM-5 announcement: https://z.ai/blog/glm-5 - I figured if the Chinese AI labs have picked it up that's a good sign it's broken out.

Re: What is agentic engineering?

#24

After three months of seeing what agentic engineering produces first-hand, I think there's going to be a pretty big correction. Not saying that AI doesn't have a place, and that models aren't getting better, but there is a seriously delusional state in this industry right now..

And we haven't even started to see the security ramifications... my money is on the black hats in this race.

Re: What is agentic engineering?

#26
I mean agents as concept has been around since the 70s, we’ve added LLMs as an interface, but the concept (take input, loop over tools or other instructions, generate output) are very very old.

Claude gave a spot on description a few months back,

The honest framing would be: “We finally have a reasoning module flexible enough to make the old agent architectures practical for general-purpose tasks.” But that doesn’t generate VC funding or Twitter engagement, so instead we get breathless announcements about “agentic AI” as if the concept just landed from space.

Re: What is agentic engineering?

#27
post #8

I don't think we should be making this distinction. We're still engaged in software engineering. This isn't a new discipline, it's a new technique. We're still using testing, requirements gathering, etc. to ensure we've produced the correct product and that the product is correct. Just with more automation.

Yeah, I see agentic engineering as a sub-field or a technique within software engineering.

I entirely agree that engineering practices still matter. It has been fascinating to watch how so many of the techniques associated with high-quality software engineering - automated tests and linting and clear documentation and CI and CD and cleanly factored code and so on - turn out to help coding agents produce better results as well.

Re: What is agentic engineering?

#30
post #8

I don't think we should be making this distinction. We're still engaged in software engineering. This isn't a new discipline, it's a new technique. We're still using testing, requirements gathering, etc. to ensure we've produced the correct product and that the product is correct. Just with more automation.

My preferred definition of software engineering is found in the first chapter of Modern Software Engineering by David Farley

  Software engineering is the application of an empirical, scientific approach to finding efficient, economic solutions to practical problems in software.
As for the practitioner, he said that they:

  …must become experts at learning and experts at managing complexity
For the learning part, that means

  Iteration
  Feedback
  Incrementalism
  Experimentation
  Empiricism
For the complexity part, that means

  Modularity
  Cohesion
  Separation of Concerns
  Abstraction
  Loose Coupling
Anyone that advocates for agentic engineering has been very silent about the above points. Even for the very first definition, it seems that we’re no longer seeking to solve practical problems, nor proposing economical solutions for them.
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