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Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

agelesslinux.org

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Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#621

Post by headsman771 »

gzread wrote: post #615
headsman771 wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take your point, but it's extremely foolish to think that ensured compliance won't be sought when it's technologically feasible. Its already illegal to show adult material to minors. If they were about enforcing laws properly they'd just do that. For instance a court ruling that adult material isnt allowed on the internet, since you can't effectively ID visitors. Anyone could just make a fake ID though, so what did…

Is it technologically feasible to ensure compliance with the ADA?

No. Not without upending innumerable precedents, laws, and norms in the US, or optionally, bankrupting it.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#622

Post by akersten »

pocksuppet wrote: post #610
akersten wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's basically the government said "no asbestos in food" and some contrarians it's actually the government saying "you must include salt in your food" and a few people who cook dinner at home and don't care for salt set up a website teaching you how to desalinate your... (well, there's no direct continuation of the metaphor here, but the point is it's very important that this is not the government banning a develop…

It's the government saying "you must put fluoride in tap water" and a few people making a big fuss about selling unfluoridated water

If we insist on stretching this absurd metaphor, the government would be issuing civil penalties to "water distributors" who provide water without the requisite floridation, where "water distributors" includes not just Aquafina for selling bottled water, but also the lemonade stand the kids set up in front of the house and you, in your home kitchen, serving your house guests water from your reverse-osmosis private reserve.

It seems metaphor is important to you, so hopefully this thoroughly illustrates the insanity of this law.

The point is there are no carve outs (for open source). Your toy operating system is just as liable as Microsoft to implement this. In the real world, the health department does not require your home cocktail hour beverages to meet industrial water supply mineralization standards.

Perhaps you believe that analogue is "a few people raising a stink" because you don't really believe the "health department" would go after my "little open source water faucet." But the way the law is written, there's nothing stopping them. And none of us want to be the test case. And that's not even getting into the whole "compelled speech" problem, but I'm going to have to leave that line of argument to someone else to analogize.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#623

Post by fc417fc802 »

gzread wrote: post #605
fc417fc802 wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No more or less than sending age information or registering an ID does. In all cases they must track content classification at some granularity (individual resource, single page, subdomain, some other scheme) and act on that information. The only thing that varies is how they act.

Yes, when it's client-sent they can hide classified parts of the page. When it's server-sent you either mark the whole website 18+ or you hide 18+ content for everyone.

You're just making things up. There's no technical reason a header based solution can't be granular. It could also specify alternative resources similar to how multiple image resolutions are handled today. It all depends on what is standardized.

Right now the only one I'm aware of is RTA which theoretically applies on a per-request basis although I expect that approximately all present usage is uniform site wide.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#624

Post by gzread »

headsman771 wrote: post #621
gzread wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it technologically feasible to ensure compliance with the ADA?

No. Not without upending innumerable precedents, laws, and norms in the US, or optionally, bankrupting it.

But you think they'll do it for over 18 just because they can and it's easy to do?

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#625

Post by gzread »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #623
gzread wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, when it's client-sent they can hide classified parts of the page. When it's server-sent you either mark the whole website 18+ or you hide 18+ content for everyone.

You're just making things up. There's no technical reason a header based solution can't be granular. It could also specify alternative resources similar to how multiple image resolutions are handled today. It all depends on what is standardized. Right now the only one I'm aware of is RTA which theoretically applies on a per-request basis although I expect that approximately all present usage is uniform site wide.

If you can redirect based on over18 every site will do that to learn the same information as if the client just sent it, but slower.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#626

Post by fc417fc802 »

gzread wrote: post #625
fc417fc802 wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're just making things up. There's no technical reason a header based solution can't be granular. It could also specify alternative resources similar to how multiple image resolutions are handled today. It all depends on what is standardized. Right now the only one I'm aware of is RTA which theoretically applies on a per-request basis although I expect that approximately all present usage is uniform site wide.

If you can redirect based on over18 every site will do that to learn the same information as if the client just sent it, but slower.

If such a feature were specified then a site would merely have the option of providing alternatives. In the event that it did, whether or not to follow such redirects would be entirely up to the client.

Such a system is clearly the technically superior solution. It regulates the provider as opposed to the client, forcing the market to provide a workable solution for concerned parties while the client maintains complete control over how things are handled. It further steers well clear of any slippery slopes by not mandating the broadcast or collection of personal information.

Perhaps important from a liability perspective, it places the onus on the client as opposed to these latest attempts to shift it squarely onto the service provider. Right now the legality of serving content across jurisdictional boundaries is extremely convoluted. With ID or age reporting laws it clearly becomes the service provider's responsibility. In contrast, a mandatory metadata standard for classification would create a situation in which it is clear that the legal responsibility (if any) to appropriately configure filters falls to the client.

Of course such a solution would be of no help to the anti-porn and pro-surveillance lobbies. That's the entire point.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#627

Post by enoint »

dataflow wrote: post #613
enoint wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GE smart wall oven could meet the definition. I’m genuinely unsure which way a judge would rule. For ovens which do not provide an App Store, I cannot tell what the intent of AB 1043 should be.

> The GE smart wall oven could meet the definition. I’m genuinely unsure which way a judge would rule. > or ovens which do not provide an App Store, I cannot tell what the intent of AB 1043 should be. - Does the oven have an "account setup" process? - Does the phrase " the user of that device" make sense for this oven? - Does "the purpose of providing a signal regarding the user’s age bracket to applications availabl…

Since there are no exceptions, I’m not sure if a judge will ask those.

One judge might look at an appliance with no screen or input and “nope” it quickly.

Another might decide that these OS designers should show more caution. And just because their distro supports ovens, it also supports Amazon Echo.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#628

Post by headsman771 »

gzread wrote: post #624
headsman771 wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Not without upending innumerable precedents, laws, and norms in the US, or optionally, bankrupting it.

But you think they'll do it for over 18 just because they can and it's easy to do?

Yes. Because it isn't any of those 3. It's not in contravention of any long standing norm (just since the popularization of the internet), law, or long standing precedent.

And because it gives multiple groups extreme power and influence over many things.

And because those groups clearly crave that power and influence.

The internet is the new public sphere and forum, and it should not be possible except through legal judgement to bar or hinder anyone from accessing it.

If necessary, create private gated networks for adult material.

Anyway. You're clearly entrenched for some reason, so I won't waste my good faith effort any more.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#629

Post by TZubiri »

iamnothere wrote: post #327
TZubiri wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very common pattern in compliance, if you want to export to a country, (regardless of monetization method), manufacturers and distributors comply with local requirements like for example getting approved for local electrical parameters and implementing specific plugs for local sockets.

If you came to my website and downloaded something, I did not export it. Maybe you imported it, that’s on you.

But nobody 'came to your website', it's more like they sent you a letter and you mailed the package. That's exporting to me.

Consider that your server received a connection from an ISP that you know has global reach, and you sent the packages to IP addresses that are from a specific RIR and assigned to a specific country. That is if you are hosting directly if it's a third party, who knows.

Also, I am not a lawyer.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#630

Post by intended »

nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

It feels like an exercise in futility to ring the alarm on HN.

This is happening in India, Australia and will happen everywhere in the world.

Tech is now the “bad guy”. Voters are tired of tech firms and want tech firms to be held accountable for the “bad stuff they do”.

Actual research and evidence is held back because even if Tech is well meaning, they do not allow negative research results to be shared.

While this information void is growing, Governments are champing at the bit to bring tech firms to heel within their jurisdictions.

The alignment of incentives allows only one direction for things to go.

We do not need global lobbying to achieve this result.

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