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Human Rights Watch says drone strikes in Haiti have killed nearly 1,250 people

haitiantimes.com

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Re: Human Rights Watch says drone strikes in Haiti have killed nearly 1,250 people

#121

Post by HuaraHuara2 »

01100011 wrote: post #114
jkman wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is naive. 'they need a real government that protects people's rights' and this government will magically materialize out of thin air and institute an island paradise, right? You can't even meaningfully discuss a real 'military' in Haiti, it is a failed state with minimal control of even their capital city.

This is a very common view among people who have grown up in the west. Some form of "people are inherently good, governments will spontaneously form and will be altruistic unless a bad minority does otherwise." It's strange because the dominant religion in the west has as a fundamental tenet that people are inherently bad. But I digress... Unless one is some form of deist who believes there is a top-tier authority wh…

This is an extraordinarily realistic take, I imagine you've traveled well to reach to that conclusion. The West is simply unwilling to concede that nothing is given in nature, as they have never truly dealt with the conniving spirit in the hearts of most men.

Re: Human Rights Watch says drone strikes in Haiti have killed nearly 1,250 people

#122

Post by mmooss »

01100011 wrote: post #114
jkman wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is naive. 'they need a real government that protects people's rights' and this government will magically materialize out of thin air and institute an island paradise, right? You can't even meaningfully discuss a real 'military' in Haiti, it is a failed state with minimal control of even their capital city.

This is a very common view among people who have grown up in the west. Some form of "people are inherently good, governments will spontaneously form and will be altruistic unless a bad minority does otherwise." It's strange because the dominant religion in the west has as a fundamental tenet that people are inherently bad. But I digress... Unless one is some form of deist who believes there is a top-tier authority wh…

Yet universal rights have taken over the world, and are embraced by all the most free, most wealthy, most safe countries; it is the foundation of their governments. They are the most succesful governments in history with no others even close to competing, and have done that for many generations.

And now that universal rights have been weakened, the freedom, prosperity, and safety of those countries is weakening.

> Some form of "people are inherently good, governments will spontaneously form and will be altruistic unless a bad minority does otherwise."

That is a strawperson. Certainly nobody says 'spontaneously', and democratic goverments are constructed carefully to prevent abuses of power.

Naivete is swallowing the bait of fascists, hook, line and sinker: That freedom is somehow impossible, that people are only evil (instead of a mix of good and bad, either of which we can embrace and strengthen), and we must have a strongman. How convenient for the wannabe dictator.

Re: Human Rights Watch says drone strikes in Haiti have killed nearly 1,250 people

#123

Post by mmooss »

HuaraHuara2 wrote: post #119
mmooss wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> naive Exactly the words used by the enemies of freedom: 'It's naive!' It's predictable. Nobody said anything about easy. Murdering civilians is easy, I suppose, but not a route to a solution nor an acceptable means.

America has always been blessed with great geography, natural resources, an educated populace, and an inventive, optimistic spirit. That is to say, Americans have never suffered and as such, cannot comprehend suffering. Thus Americans are blind and naive to injustices they have never faced.

It's been embraced and is highly successful all over the world.

Re: Human Rights Watch says drone strikes in Haiti have killed nearly 1,250 people

#124

Post by [deleted] »

mmooss wrote: post #104
jkman wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is naive. 'they need a real government that protects people's rights' and this government will magically materialize out of thin air and institute an island paradise, right? You can't even meaningfully discuss a real 'military' in Haiti, it is a failed state with minimal control of even their capital city.

> naive Exactly the words used by the enemies of freedom: 'It's naive!' It's predictable. Nobody said anything about easy. Murdering civilians is easy, I suppose, but not a route to a solution nor an acceptable means.

[deleted]

Re: Human Rights Watch says drone strikes in Haiti have killed nearly 1,250 people

#125

Post by cindyllm »

mmooss wrote: post #122
01100011 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very common view among people who have grown up in the west. Some form of "people are inherently good, governments will spontaneously form and will be altruistic unless a bad minority does otherwise." It's strange because the dominant religion in the west has as a fundamental tenet that people are inherently bad. But I digress... Unless one is some form of deist who believes there is a top-tier authority wh…

Yet universal rights have taken over the world, and are embraced by all the most free, most wealthy, most safe countries; it is the foundation of their governments. They are the most succesful governments in history with no others even close to competing, and have done that for many generations. And now that universal rights have been weakened, the freedom, prosperity, and safety of those countries is weakening. > So…

[dead]

Re: Human Rights Watch says drone strikes in Haiti have killed nearly 1,250 people

#126

Post by rexpop »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #118
Anamon wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A permanent, non-negligible chance of becoming a collateral victim in an extrajudicial drone killing doesn't sound like order to me. TFA mentions residents are very scared. They live in a war zone. Edit: I get the argument that it was a war zone anyway and people are also afraid of the gangs. But that comes from the fallacy of seeing the drone strikes as the only option. There are better ways to create order than cre…

Haiti has been a shit show for like 200 years now. You don’t think they’ve tried every method they can think of to deal with the criminals? What are the better methods to deal with chaos that they have been ignoring?

> You don’t think they’ve tried every method

No, I don't. Their experimentation is constrained by many forces.

Re: Human Rights Watch says drone strikes in Haiti have killed nearly 1,250 people

#127

Post by jibal »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #107
ghurtado wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spamming the same comment over and over again, what a sad existence. Flagged. Honestly, you do not belong in this platform. You have the maturity of a 3rd grader.

Personal attacks also do not belong on this platform. Regardless of what you think of the GP's comments, don't reply like this.

Neither mikkupikku nor ghurtado seem to care.

Re: Human Rights Watch says drone strikes in Haiti have killed nearly 1,250 people

#128

Post by createaccount99 »

system7rocks wrote: post #28

If you are a tech guy and working with drones or any AI company that has even a bare relationship to some security firm, you have a few options: 1 - Immediately share all information and intel with the public so as to spare any judicial accountability. 2 - Quit. 3 - Prepare to go to jail for the rest of your life. This is profoundly evil.

> Prepare to go to jail for the rest of your life.

There will only be consequences for the losing side, if even then. See WW2. Options 1/2 are valid, option 3 should be "cope being evil."

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