Live data from Hacker News

MCP is dead; long live MCP

chrlschn.dev

191–200 of 231 posts

Re: MCP is dead; long live MCP

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All MCP adds is a session token. How is that not already a solved problem?

P It makes it part of the protocol so the llm doesn't have to handle it, which is brittle And look at the patent post I've replied to choice of protocol, I'd like to see a session token over ftp where you need to track the current folder per conversation.

But the agent harness is still handling the session token for you either way. MCP might be an easy way for agent harness creators to abstract the issue away, but I don’t want to lose all REST conventions just to make it a little easier for them to write an agent harness.

It makes it harder for the LLM to understand what’s going on, not easier.

Re: MCP is dead; long live MCP

#194
post #119

A lot of the best tooling around AI we're seeing is adding deterministic gates that the probabilistic AI agents work with. This is why I'm using MCP over http. I'm happy for the the agent to use it's intelligence and creativity to help me solve problems, but for a range of operations, I want a gate past which actions run with the certainty of normal software functions. NanoClaw sells itself on using deterministic fil…

[dead]

I think we need to just think of agents as people. The same principles around how we authenticate, authorize and revoke permissions to people should apply to agents. We don't leave the server room door open for users to type commands into physical machines for good reason, and so we shouldn't be doing the same with agents, unless fully sandboxed or the blast radius of malign or erroneous action is fully accepted.

Re: MCP is dead; long live MCP

#195
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me how many ways that print help message for a command you have seen and say "reusable" again. Mcp is exactly exists to solve this. The rest is just json rpc with simple key value pairs. You can probably let llm guess the help flag and try to parse help message. But the success rate is totally depends on model you are using.

Most CLIs use `--help`, any other are just plain hostile to the users. `-h` is also popular, but there is also possible issue of that shorthand, hence `--help`.

some come with only very short description but most part are only discoverable by 'man'.

and windows mostly use \? and also \h,

java user single - for long argument because it don't have short one.

I doubt it is ever close to reusable.

And even allowed position of parameters (or even meaning of arguments in case of ffmpeg) are program dependent.

Some allow anywhere as long as it is started with a dash, some only allow before first input

Re: MCP is dead; long live MCP

#196
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's significantly more difficult to secure random clis than those apis. All llm tools today bypass their ignore files by running commands their harness can't control.

I don't think so. There is no MCP standard for authentication, our infosec banned MCP because of that.

It's right there in the docs and it's just OIDC + OAuth: https://modelcontextprotocol.io/specification/draft/basic/au...

Re: MCP is dead; long live MCP

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I want to know is what's the difference between a remote mcp and an api with an openapi.json endpoint for self-discovery? It's just as centralized

It's instructive to skim the top level of the MCP spec to get a sense. But you can also scroll to the end of the post and see the three .gifs there and see why MCP: because it also defines interaction models with the clients and exposes MCP prompts as `/` (slash) commands and MCP resources as `@` (at) references among other things. You are right: MCP tools are in essence OpenAPI specs with some niceties like standard…

Neither slash commands or interaction models are unique to mcp, you can have a http api that offers both.

More concretely, you can have an installable (and updatable) skills that will teach the agents how to use your api and will come with slash commands.

What you cannot do with an mcp is pipe the output into standard tools (jq, head, etc...) or create scripts around it, etc.

Re: MCP is dead; long live MCP

#198
post #119

A lot of the best tooling around AI we're seeing is adding deterministic gates that the probabilistic AI agents work with. This is why I'm using MCP over http. I'm happy for the the agent to use it's intelligence and creativity to help me solve problems, but for a range of operations, I want a gate past which actions run with the certainty of normal software functions. NanoClaw sells itself on using deterministic fil…

[dead]

It seems like we're going back to expert systems in a kind of inverted sense with all of this chaining of deterministic steps. But now the "experts" are specialized and well-defined actions available to something smart enough to compose them to create new, more powerful actions. We've moved the determinism to the right spot, maybe? Just a half-thought.

I'm just trying to learn this stuff now, so I don't the literature. The "trajectory view" through action space is what makes the most sense to me.

Along these lines, another half-baked pattern I see is kind of a time-lagged translation of stuff from modern stat mech to deep learning/"AI". First it was energy based systems and the complex energy landscape view, a-la spin glasses and boltzmann machines. The "equilibrium" state-space view, concerned with memory and pattern storage/retrieval. Hinton, amit, hopfield, mackay and co.

Now, the trajectory view that started in the 90s with jarzynski and crooks and really bloomed in 2010+ with "stochastic thermodynamics" seems to be a useful lens. The agent stuff is very "nonequilibrium"/ "active"-system coded, in the thermo sense... With the ability to create, modify, and exploit resources (tools/memory) on the fly, there's deep history and path dependence. I see ideas from recent wolpert and co.(Susanne still, crooks again, etc.) w.r.t. thermodynamics of computation providing a kind of through line, all trajectory based. That's all very vague I know, but I recently read the COALA paper and was very enchanted and have been trying to combine what I actually know with this new foreign agent stuff.

It's also very interesting to me how the Italian stat mech school, the parisi family, have continuously put out bangers trying to actually explain machine learning and deep learning success.

I'd love to hear if anyone is thinking along similar lines, or thinks I'm way off track, has paper recs please let me know! Especially papers on the trajectory view of agents.

Re: MCP is dead; long live MCP

#199

I am not sure where the OP is hearing that the hype cycle is dissipating, but MCP adoption is actually accelerating, not decreasing [1] More than 200% growth in official MCP servers in past 6 months: https://bloomberry.com/blog/we-analyzed-1400-mcp-servers-her...

According to some slop blog?
Post reply on HN