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Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

nytimes.com

11–20 of 78 posts

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#11
It's tough to find any wrong doing by Google in an article like this. It's pure speculation. Many of their tools, step on other sites toes. Hipmunk and kayak recently had to deal with https://www.google.com/flights/.

When searching for goods such as "macbook pro" you'll notice sponsored links with prices that Google "may be compensated from". That type of stuff seems unfair to me.

I won't say Google is playing unfair as of late, but they are certainly more than just displaying results these days.

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#12
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Google squeezing small businesses?

Basically, the volatility of their algorithm and the opaqueness of it means that any small business that is getting >80% Google-referred traffic is in for a tough time if they're marked as bad. And mistakes happen. Say: * A canonical tag that shows up due to a bug. Dead. * Industry terms that appear duplicative to the NLP parser. Dead. * Too-diverse content. Lower rankings, but functionally dead. There's tons more, b…

This smells like bullshit to me. Google's search results are generally extremely good from the "customer's" point of view.

People whining about how they're hurt by losing search position inevitably turn out to be spammers or other lowlife that have been trying to use "SEO" or some other shady practice to artificially inflate their search position.

So yeah, Google is bad for con-men. Darn.

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#13
Hmm I wonder if Nextag's traffic is being affected not by Google's algorithm changing to hurt them personally, but rather to include more localized results.

Example: Whenever I want to do comparison shopping I would type in "{{product name}} price canada". A few years ago Nextag would always come up first and I would click on it, only to be frustrated by the fact that the retailers listed were all American. Now not too long ago more and more of these services cropped up that offered Canadian listings (shopbot.ca, canoe.ca, and now even Canada Post has their own website that does the same thing). Now imagine this happening country by country all over the world and it's not inconceivable that Nextag's traffic would be shrinking. Also I've just realized that Nextag also has a .ca destination but for some reason I've NEVER seen it come up in my results.

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#14
post #6

The question is, is google the web? why do we rely so much on google ? because we became lazy ... because browsers like firefox promoted google search heavily , until it becomes obsolete as a browser itself because of chrome , because all these comparison sites built their businesses on google search engine, and now google has his own shopping search engine , they became obsolete , and the list goes on and on... our…

> why do we rely so much on google ? because we became lazy

Because google delivers amazingly good results.

[Oh, and FF certainly isn't "obsolete because of chrome." Both are fine browsers, and the competition has proved beneficial to both of them.]

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#15
The folks at Nextag (which by the way sells product listings without disclosing them and then complains about google: http://searchengineland.com/given-nextags-lack-of-transparen...) are telling the same sob story to every reporter who would listen. Their complaint is that they keep getting less free traffic from Google as if they are somehow entitled to it, they insist that they are living in a "Google world" and then go on to contradict that by saying that they are diversifying.

It’s frustrating that the reporters are trying to cast doubt over every instance of a website getting demoted in rank as if the web is static and Google’s code base is unchanging, and they don't even give much consideration to inevitable errors in large and complicated systems. They offer no proof just speculations and innuendo.

But what I find to be most frustrating is that this article shares the same blind insistence with Google’s opponents that search engines must only rank blue links, and only links to other websites, which is not only an ati-innovation stance but also an unintuitive one. As IBM’s Watson and to a lesser extent Siri has shown, search interface is about immediate answers, and the ultimate answer to these accusations still stands: if you don't like Google’s results use another service, if you can't reach a certain website via Google you can go directly to their website or get their smartphone app or follow them on Twitter or Facebook or bloody Instagram.

It is also worth mentioning that the NYT ran editorials urging the government to investigate Google, and I think a disclaimer mentioning that ought to have preceded the article: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/15/opinion/15thu3.html

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#16
post #8

The problem is that Google competes with businesses that once thrived on its platform. It's similar to when Microsoft decided to bundle IE into Windows. Google now bundles comparison shopping and local business reviews into search. If they go too far in this direction it will probably hurt them. Users don't want a search engine that puts its own, lesser quality, sites at the top. It'd be amazing if Google spun off Go…

Maybe you can help me understand this analogy a little better. You say that it's similar to when Microsoft decided to bundle IE into Windows, but the comparison isn't totally obvious to me at first blush.

Microsoft went to great (and often illegal?) lengths to prevent customers from considering or being able to make use of alternatives. Consumers had a great deal of lock in -- a user of a Windows computer often had software that would only be compatible with a new computer that also ran Windows, for instance. And Microsoft was able to use that leverage to acquire and keep users of its browser software.

Google doesn't seem to be following that pattern, as far as I can see. Users can (and do) make use of Google services from non-Google platforms. Google makes its products available to people using browsers other than Chrome, phones other than Android, etc. Performing a Google search requires no account.

I use Google for a lot of services, and I certainly don't want a lesser quality site at the top of my search results. I haven't seen that, either. I _have_ seen Google augment its already stellar services with new features that enhance my experience, and I ignore those things that haven't. If I ever find myself unable to ignore or disable things, I'll probably switch to another search engine. Which I'm free to do, since my use of the internet isn't controlled by Google!

You make some assertions that I'm just not seeing the evidence for, but I'd like to hear more about them. It seems uncontroversial that users don't want lesser quality search results. Where is the evidence that they are seeing them? And if they are, why aren't they switching to a different search engine? Why should Google have to separate their "core" search business from their other ventures right at a time when the expanded product (things like Google Now) is proving just how revolutionary a next-generation, personalized, multi-source search agent can be?

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#17
The problem: "Nextag’s response? It doubled its spending on Google paid search advertising in the last five months."

Google knows this and they have an incentive to move "commercial" sites towards AdWords and move "informational" sites higher in the organic results. The benefit is engineers can claim they are providing a better end user search experience while AdWords can make even more money.

The bigger problem is that the top 10 on a search string can be very arbitrary. What should be the top ten for the search term "shoes"? Wikipedia? Zappos? Local shoe stores? A blog about shoes? Are the top 10 the top 10 because they should be there or simply because Google put them there?

Nextag is an example of a company built on a platform (Google organic search results) that is somewhat hostile to Nextag's business. It's similar to the whole Twitter client app situation. Nextag needs Google, but Google doesn't need Nextag. It's an unequal partnership of sorts and Google doesn't care of Nextag exists.

It's too bad, but that is the nature of Google's platform.

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#18

I think the most serious concern is how Google promotes its own offerings above more popular competitors in the search results section. For example, do a search for "finance" and Google Finance is shown above Yahoo! finance, even though Yahoo! finance is better by most measures, and far more popular (see http://www.businessinsider.com/google-finance-yahoo-finance-... ) If you rely on Google to drive traffic, but also…

I'm not convinced that Google moves it's own results up as part of the organic search results. Bing puts Google Finance first before Yahoo Finance as well. Regardless of it's popularity, its position may simply because of other signals in the ranking algorithm.

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#19
post #8

The problem is that Google competes with businesses that once thrived on its platform. It's similar to when Microsoft decided to bundle IE into Windows. Google now bundles comparison shopping and local business reviews into search. If they go too far in this direction it will probably hurt them. Users don't want a search engine that puts its own, lesser quality, sites at the top. It'd be amazing if Google spun off Go…

Search makes google zero dollars. Adwords makes google lots and lots of money. Adwords is about getting their paying customers ads infront of users. Search, product review, gmail, and lots or other apps are ways for google to make money.

Adwords is Googles firehose of money. Their other products help push that or are trying to find new ways to make money.

Re: Google Casts a Big Shadow on Smaller Web Sites

#20
post #15

The folks at Nextag (which by the way sells product listings without disclosing them and then complains about google: http://searchengineland.com/given-nextags-lack-of-transparen... ) are telling the same sob story to every reporter who would listen. Their complaint is that they keep getting less free traffic from Google as if they are somehow entitled to it, they insist that they are living in a "Google world" and t…

I am with you on all points until your last - Newspapers take great pains to keep news and editorial departments separate.

I don't think it is common practice to disclose past editorials on the same topic as news articles, and if it were, the New York Times would have to disclose stances on both sides of many issues.

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