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John Carmack about open source and anti-AI activists

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Re: John Carmack about open source and anti-AI activists

#491

In my mind, AI is making a lot of engineers, including Carmack, seem fairly thoughtless. At the other moments in recent history where technology has displaced workers, labor has either had to fight some very bloody battles or had stronger labor organization. Tech workers are highly atomized now, and if you have to work to live, you're negotiating on your own. It seems like Carmack, like a lot of tech people, have for…

> the US is built on a high value service economy

The purist forms of capitalism I’ve seen are places with low prices, a large working class, practical marketing, and high competition - often they’re considered “3rd world” places.

The US economy, if it wants to remain “1st world” must have high prices. It has to contain an element of scarcity (however faux) in order to be sold at a premium, or be able to impart some privileged (institutional) knowledge as a firm - which should be as esoteric as it is scarce.

It can’t be quality alone since all building and manufacturing is effectively outsourced. It has to have a premium brand recognition or monopolistic aspects to it that necessitate a high price.

So the challenge for the first world, during the rise of China (Mexico, etc.), is to find new ways to justify the privileged position using this new technology as a lever to do so.

Re: John Carmack about open source and anti-AI activists

#492
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MIT license didn’t require a lot of thought.

> The MIT license I still can't believe that developers got memed into this being the default license. 20 years ago, you'd always default to GPL and only opt for something else if it was a complete non-starter, and then you'd turn to LGPL (e.g., if it was a C library), and failing that, some BSD variant. But developers were always cautious to prefer GPL wherever they could to prevent exploitation and maximize user fr…

> that's probably due to the lack of a stable ABI complicating dynamic linking enough to make LGPL less viable

They could use MPL. It's an alternative "weak copyleft" license that's not concerned with dynamic linking

Re: John Carmack about open source and anti-AI activists

#493
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You could also simply have taken the quote you were responding to and run it through a few LLMs to acquire those examples. Wasn't me, but probably because this was unnecessary and rude. An example, or a link, when a claim is made, is always nice, turns a hollow claim into something informative. Better signal to noise is nice.

That’s funny. I find it pretty rude to ask a question on a fairly well-documented historical topic that you could also very easily have found out with a simple Google search. Back in the day, we used to reply to people, “Let me Google that for you,” when someone asked such a low-effort question. Your original reply strongly indicated that you were skeptical and questioning the user’s claim. There is a very large body…

> Your original reply strongly indicated that you were skeptical and questioning the user’s claim.

No, I was honestly genuinely interested. This is foreign to me and thought there might be an interesting starting point. You should read comments with a charitable interpretation.

You should check out the HN comment guidelines [1], which the mods take seriously.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: John Carmack about open source and anti-AI activists

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carmacks ai company explicitly does not work on LLMs though

Practically every major company in the LLM space claims to have a core mission of pursuing AGI, just like Keen.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make. Keen isn't in the LLM space.

Re: John Carmack about open source and anti-AI activists

#495
post #108

Has anyone else noticed a cultural shift around monetization of output? I think there wasn't as much back when I first started using open-source programs, both as a user, and a small-time contributor for decades now. And I've noticed this on other things too. A short while ago, someone on Reddit pointed out that something on Google Maps was wrong and so I went and submitted a fix and told them how to and I received a…

Really weird how you compare contribution to a commercial market leading company with open source licensing. How does that even make sense? If you give your knowledge or workforce away for free, do it. Google will not notice you in any case.

Re: John Carmack about open source and anti-AI activists

#496
post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being displaced due to improved technology isn't anything new. Wagons pulled by horses used to be driven by people as well.

> Being displaced due to improved technology isn't anything new. Wagons pulled by horses used to be driven by people as well. And in this situation Carmack is essentially a wealthy, rich ranch owner who says to peasant that it's not a big deal at all . Again: what's your point?

This is not a new pattern in society, it has happened historically and its going to happen again.

Re: John Carmack about open source and anti-AI activists

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. I've written about this topic a lot on this site, probably most recently here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47115597 The US is built on-top of a high value service economy. And what we're doing is allowing a couple companies to come in, devalue US service labor, and capture a small fraction of the prior value for themselves on top of models trained on copyrighted material without permission.…

> I honestly don't think a lot of executives even know how much they're shooting themselves in the foot because they seem unable to think beyond the first order. It's just so depressing. You see Microsoft and Google's CEOs being completely reckless with investment & the economy. And it's just ... HAVE THEY NOT LOOKED INTO A MIRROR? DO THEY NOT REALIZE THEY ARE THE FALL GUYS?! Nevermind how the vast majority of major…

They are not the fall guys. They are at the buffet with the biggest plates, and when the buffet ends, they'll have the most food on their plates.

Re: John Carmack about open source and anti-AI activists

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Avoiding every corporation that does stuff you disagree with just isn't feasible. That would be all of them. They are all dirty. The idea of 'voting with your dollar' is ridiculous - they are all terrible, so there's nothing to vote for. But yes, modern life requires that we engage with their nonsense, no need to think of the interaction as anything more that begrudging extraction.

I don’t know. I’m more wary of a company that makes its money from advertising than one that profits on the goods it sells me.

Do you think any corporate isn't extracting data from you? Put techno companies to one side (as if not all companies are not actually tech nowadays) - what about pharmaceuticals, cars? All extractive as well as selling a product. Supermarkets? Financial companies? If you think there are companies not observing the data as well as selling the product, I don't think you're paying attention.

Re: John Carmack about open source and anti-AI activists

#499
post #472
post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm using google maps for free!!! That's HUGE benefit to me. Is it? You are doing labor (usage) that harms yourself (brain damage). The fact that google makes money isn't irrelevant, it's the whole point.

Why would using Google maps cause brain damage?

Apparently not stopping every five minutes to look at a paper map causes brain damage now.

I assume it’s some extreme take based on the speculation that outsourcing thinking to LLMs makes people dumber.

Re: John Carmack about open source and anti-AI activists

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that the big tech companies aren't holding up their end of the traditional social contract. This analogy feels too strained. Google gives away Maps, Gmail, and other products for free. A little UI widget inviting users to submit fixes is hardly an onerous demand. > and they will of course log your location history and sell it to the highest bidder. Google does not do this, no matter how many times th…

Google does do this. I saw it first hand while employed by Google. They sell your location data. Yes it’s not in the raw but it is sold as part of targeted ads

Absolute nonsense. If you have a smidgen of proof please tell us.
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