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Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

agelesslinux.org

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Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#311

Post by CJefferson »

sophrosyne42 wrote: post #78
softwaredoug wrote: post #23

The problem is we’re regulating individual behavior by adding to the surveillance apparatus. We should be regulating the companies and dismantling the surveillance that makes the apps addictive to kids. It’s a way of socializing the losses, this time you lose civil liberties and they get to keep acting unrestricted

Regulating the companies also socializes the costs of implementing age verification measures. The correct solution that does not do this is to put liability on the parents.

So do you think we should remove all laws on selling cigarettes, alcohol and guns to children, make it the parents job?

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#312

Post by quectophoton »

lambda wrote: post #239
macintux wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am so puzzled by everyone who objects so strongly to these operating system based opt in systems The government legislating APIs is an uncomfortable precedent given the culture wars that are raging right now. There seems little reason to expect this will stop here.

They are not legislating specific APIs. They are legislating that an API has to be provided, just like other laws legislate that you have to provide accessibility APIs, but the details of the APIs are left up to the companies. I work in aviation, a highly regulated field. And that's a good thing. It does take some work to regulate well; there has been a migration in aviation to more prescriptive regulation about how…

Years later: "The current measures are a step in the right direction, but we have found them insufficient. We are now requiring the use of this specific proprietary binary blob for any action related to the verification process. It will conveniently run as a daemon so its exposed API will be accessible to any application that needs to query it, and it will automatically update itself so you don't have to worry about it, just set it up once and forget about it."

It might also include some additional text like "we have decided to collaborate with systemd to integrate this proprietary binary blob, to maximize the reach and eliminating any pains in the setup process caused by the vibrant ecosystem of package managers, while at the same time avoiding disrupting the development process of the Linux kernel".

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#313

Post by dataflow »

bee_rider wrote: post #278
akdev1l wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so many people start asking random questions like these acting as if judges are drooling baboons or something “What’s even an operating system will this apply to my toaster?” - probably not, a judge would ultimately decide.

That seems pretty annoying for people who sell computing appliances like smart toasters, routers, and televisions, and videogame consoles—do they preemptively start implementing in case a judge decides they are covered? Why not write an easy-to-interpret law in the first place?

Exactly which part of AB 1043 makes you think a "smart toaster" could reasonably fall under it?

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#315

Post by matheusmoreira »

throw10920 wrote: post #305
matheusmoreira wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you think the entire system is corrupt I do. > you should reform/replace it This is a way to reform it. If nobody obeys a law, is it really illegal? It's more like a custom. > Selective rejection of laws based on your own personal morals is wrong in every circumstance. So if your so called authorities passed a law saying you're required to participate in some atrocity such as genocide, you'd do it with a clean cons…

[flagged]

This thread is devolving into insults and name calling, so I won't engage any further. Thanks for the discussion.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#316

Post by fwipsy »

throw10920 wrote: post #284
matheusmoreira wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unjust laws should be removed. Yeah, in an ideal world. Good luck with that. We live in a deeply unjust world where laws are literally bought and paid for by corporations. This age verification nonsense is just the latest example. They aren't going to sit idle if we attack their lobbying efforts, they're going to come after us. God only knows what a surveillance company like Meta can do to you if they really hate y…

OK, so then you think the entire system is corrupt, and you should reform/replace it. Selective rejection of laws based on your own personal morals is wrong in every circumstance. Either you believe the system is just and you follow all the rules (and work through the system to changes the individual rules you believe are unjust), or you believe that the system is fundamentally unjust and you take drastic action to f…

There are many unjust laws on the books, and that will always be true:

- some are backed by powerful interests

- some have become load-bearing and are too difficult to replace

- some just don't matter and aren't enforced

- even if you fix some, new ones will be passed, because people are not perfect

If I prove this to you, will you then take your own advice and "take drastic action" to replace the US government?

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#317

Post by palmotea »

kimixa wrote: post #189
ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications. This is absolutely not true. Here in the UK schools are swarming with ipads and shit like that. They're given to primary school children because they're "more engaging". Children are supposed to practice their reading and even handwriting[1] on ipads. Naturally they're on youtube instead. It's really bad. As far as…

There's no (state) school giving out tablets that aren't pretty much single-use locked down devices. That's the parents. The expectation that "Parenting" is now outsourced to Teachers, to the Government, to anyone else. People seem to expect they just have a kid, and somehow magically they'll grow up to be a perfect person without any work from themselves. So there's over-reach, there's pressure on making "unworkable…

> The expectation that "Parenting" is now outsourced to Teachers, to the Government, to anyone else. People seem to expect they just have a kid, and somehow magically they'll grow up to be a perfect person without any work from themselves. So there's over-reach, there's pressure on making "unworkable" soutions, because the people they're trying to force "solving" the problem aren't the people in the best position to do so.

Yeah, because the parents' time is now dedicated to their employers. When parenting wasn't outsourced, families typically had a parent at home doing it full time.

Don't blame the parents and ignore the story of reduced family capacity.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#318

Post by throw10920 »

fwipsy wrote: post #316
throw10920 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, so then you think the entire system is corrupt, and you should reform/replace it. Selective rejection of laws based on your own personal morals is wrong in every circumstance. Either you believe the system is just and you follow all the rules (and work through the system to changes the individual rules you believe are unjust), or you believe that the system is fundamentally unjust and you take drastic action to f…

There are many unjust laws on the books, and that will always be true: - some are backed by powerful interests - some have become load-bearing and are too difficult to replace - some just don't matter and aren't enforced - even if you fix some, new ones will be passed, because people are not perfect If I prove this to you, will you then take your own advice and "take drastic action" to replace the US government?

> There are many unjust laws on the books, and that will always be true:

> If I prove this to you, will you then take your own advice and "take drastic action" to replace the US government?

No. You didn't actually read my comments before responding, and you're fundamentally misunderstanding my position. That's not "my own advice".

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#319

Post by iamnothere »

pocksuppet wrote: post #199
macintux wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am so puzzled by everyone who objects so strongly to these operating system based opt in systems The government legislating APIs is an uncomfortable precedent given the culture wars that are raging right now. There seems little reason to expect this will stop here.

What does "the government legislating APIs" mean? The ADA means every OS has to support screen readers.

BS. Does TempleOS support it? What about Plan9? MenuetOS?

Are these illegal operating systems?

Either you or someone else mentioned this talking point the other day, I asked for even a single example of an OS maker being sued over this successfully, and I got nothing.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#320

Post by ekianjo »

nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

> Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU.

nothing strange about that. You have higher interests in control of the (national) governments in several countries, planning things at once. This is what you see as a result. It certainly did not involve democracy.

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