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Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

agelesslinux.org

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Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#251

Post by ArchieScrivener »

bryan_w wrote: post #181

Some people are being played like a gosh dang fiddle. Y'all are so pavlovian that you see Zuck/Meta and instantly rage. The alternative to OS based verification isn't no verification. It's cloud-based verification The cloud verifiers have all the interest in the world to making you hate the idea that this problem could be solved at the OS level without any third party involvement

Arguments for the lesser of two evils are just wrappers for slippery slope logic. The actual alternative is to pass air tight privacy laws that restrain the growing power of control systems.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#252

Post by sobjornstad »

ArchieScrivener wrote: post #248
throw7 wrote: post #156

"AB 1043 passed the California Assembly 76–0 and the Senate 38–0. Not a single legislator voted against it." Amazing. We the people are not engaged. It really feels like we're at the end of history or something.

We The People are simply no longer represented. Do the math on historic representation ratios and you'll quickly see the first consolidation (long before corporate or bureaucratic) was Representation. We are about 6500 Reps shy of an actual Democratic Republic.

Relevant: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/last-rights

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#253

Post by matheusmoreira »

charcircuit wrote: post #173
matheusmoreira wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unjust laws should be violated.

This leads to anarchy or selective enforcement. Unjust laws should be removed.

> Unjust laws should be removed.

Yeah, in an ideal world. Good luck with that.

We live in a deeply unjust world where laws are literally bought and paid for by corporations. This age verification nonsense is just the latest example. They aren't going to sit idle if we attack their lobbying efforts, they're going to come after us. God only knows what a surveillance company like Meta can do to you if they really hate your guts.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#254

Post by smsm42 »

brightball wrote: post #45
nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

It’s not if you’ve paid attention to political trends for the last 15 years. Everything is happening at the same time in every country. It’s clearly being coordinated.

Looks like it: https://tboteproject.com/

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#255

Post by ab_testing »

Why are Linux operating system providers taking it upon themselves to comply with the California law especially if they are not selling anything. Since it is just a downloadable piece of software then it is up to California state to set up a firewall to protect themselves from such harmful software.

Let's say I am a generic linux developer who develops variants of Debian Linux while sitting in my basement in any part of the world.

If one country wants to ban my software because I don't ask for their age, then set up suitable protections for your citizens.

Don't force me to do that. I am not responsible for protecting your citizens.

That is like saying if Saudi wants your id to make sure only males can download operating systems, so now will I add another restriction.

At least China takes it upon themselves to ban sites that they deem harmful for their citizens rather than forcing devs.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#256

Post by xp84 »

snowchaser wrote: post #231
kimixa wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no (state) school giving out tablets that aren't pretty much single-use locked down devices. That's the parents. The expectation that "Parenting" is now outsourced to Teachers, to the Government, to anyone else. People seem to expect they just have a kid, and somehow magically they'll grow up to be a perfect person without any work from themselves. So there's over-reach, there's pressure on making "unworkable…

“There's no (state) school giving out tablets that aren't pretty much single-use locked down devices.” They try, but kids are smart and there are holes in the tools to lock things down. You would not believe the inventive workarounds that kids find to circumvent content filters. It’s a losing battle to lock everything.

Totally agree with you here, but this law - which I’m deeply offended was passed unanimously by our spineless legislators - will solve none of it.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#257

Post by coldtea »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #151
coldtea wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A) there's ways around that stuff that any child can figure out. No, there are not for hardware locked devices with the proper controls (what apps, websites, etc to allow). > B) schools aren't in fact obligated to enable those, and some don't. The technical problem is solved, if they don't want to implement the solution that's on them. > C) who decides on what channels are allowed? The school does. But teachers are…

> > B) schools aren't in fact obligated to enable those, and some don't. > The technical problem is solved, if they don't want to implement the solution that's on them. Just to be clear - do you not understand that a parent might be parenting, but some times their children is in care of a school? Your focus on "a technical solution exists" is missing the real issue here, and it's not a technical one.

I'm talking about both parents and schools: the technical solution exists. If parents/schools don't want to implement it, that's on them.

This answers your objection A and B. C is also a non-probem with a trivial fix, as I showed.

What we're discussing is whether age verification is needed. Based on the existence of other, perfectly fine solutions, it's not. "But schools don't bother implementing those other solutions" is not a counter-argument to this discussion.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#258

Post by coldtea »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #188
ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > B) schools aren't in fact obligated to enable those, and some don't. > The technical problem is solved, if they don't want to implement the solution that's on them. Just to be clear - do you not understand that a parent might be parenting, but some times their children is in care of a school? Your focus on "a technical solution exists" is missing the real issue here, and it's not a technical one.

>but some times their children is in care of a school? And not only that but some of those times are dinner break, on a school campus with a thousand other kids and barely any supervision. Even if phones are banned, it's easy to hide one and for a child to be showing their friends unhinged stuff they found on 4chan. And some of those times are on a bus carrying at least 50 kids when they're 'supervised' only by a dri…

>Even if phones are banned, it's easy to hide one and for a child to be showing their friends unhinged stuff they found on 4chan.

That would still reduce ther exposure by 1-2 orders of magnitude, which is perfectly acceptable.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#259

Post by nimchimpsky »

nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

[dead]

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#260

Post by SoftTalker »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #121
nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

> Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications. This is absolutely not true. Here in the UK schools are swarming with ipads and shit like that. They're given to primary school children because they're "more engaging". Children are supposed to practice their reading and even handwriting[1] on ipads. Naturally they're on youtube instead. It's really bad. As far as…

Exactly. We've completely lost (actually never had it) any social responsibility on the part of the social media/tech companies. Before we had the internet and all these apps and devices, parents looked after what their kids did but could also pretty much rely on other businesses to not do things like sell their kids cigarettes or pornography, let them in to R-rated movies, or expose them to other age-inappropriate stuff. Did it happen? Yes here and there but it wasn't easy for most kids.

Parents just want to be able to designate a device as belonging to a child---one setting---and have that respected. Not to have to dig into the settings of every account, service, app, and website and figure out how to set it in age-restricted mode (if that's even possible).

The tech companies have made this way too difficult and now they are facing the consequences of their shameful neglect by having to deal with all these new laws (which they will probably ignore, with no consequences, but we'll see).

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