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Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

agelesslinux.org

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Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#121

Post by ekjhgkejhgk »

nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

> Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

This is absolutely not true.

Here in the UK schools are swarming with ipads and shit like that. They're given to primary school children because they're "more engaging". Children are supposed to practice their reading and even handwriting[1] on ipads. Naturally they're on youtube instead. It's really bad. As far as I can tell, private schools are even worse. Currently the only way that I know to escape this is homeschooling.

Saying "it's a solved problem" is incredibly dismissive to parents who do everything right in their homes, but then send their children to school and schools exposed their children in this way.

Saying that phrase in such a definitive manner caters to the interests of the companies who push these shit onto schools. Please stop saying it, it's harmful.

[1] leaving this reference here because I'm certain that people without school aged children won't believe this is actually true: https://www.letterjoin.co.uk/

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#122

Post by Telaneo »

dataflow wrote: post #17
aniviacat wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They seem to be ready for this: > Q: What if the AG actually fines you? > Then we will have accomplished something no amount of mailing list discussion could: a court record establishing what AB 1043 actually means when applied to the real world. Does "operating system provider" cover a bash script? Does "general purpose computing device" cover a Raspberry Pi Pico? Can you fine someone "per affected child" when no me…

I have a feeling they're going to be very disappointed with the actual answers they'll receive to these questions.

On the one hand, I'd love a judge to respond 'yes' to all of these, if only to confirm how ridiculous they are and that a reasonable implementation is impossible. On the other hand, I'd hate for a judge to respond 'yes', because then the enforcement of said ridiculousness becomes vindicated.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#123

Post by macintux »

sophrosyne42 wrote: post #98
nico wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And LATAM probably soon to follow, specially Argentina with Milei and now Chile with their new right wing president

Milei is a libertarian, and would be very opposed to such a thing.

Running as a libertarian, and governing as a libertarian, are two entirely different things.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#124

Post by neilv »

akersten wrote: post #11
neilv wrote: post #10

1. By involving Debian prominently in its stunt, is this drawing fire upon Debian? 2. Are the pile of assertions they're making (which sound like legal arguments and stipulations to me) against Debian's interests?

Debian's interests, whether they know it or not, is for the government not to be able to mandate what features must be present in their open source software. They should be happy to have such a vocal advocate involved in this important fight.

Scene. Ext. Town street. Night. Invader military vehicles patrolling, announcing curfew through loudspeakers.

TEEN: *runs at invaders* Hey, you thugs! You can't make me obey! I support Bob, over there! *points at Bob's house*

THUGS: Grrr! Thugs smash!

BOB: Please! I have done nothing! I don't know who that teen is!

JOE: You should be happy to have such a vocal advocate in this important fight.

NARRATOR: Ironically, Bob and Jane were quietly plotting strategy and tactics for the Resistance. Until they and their children were dragged out into the street that night.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#125

Post by phyzix5761 »

nico wrote: post #46
nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

And LATAM probably soon to follow, specially Argentina with Milei and now Chile with their new right wing president

There's 2 axes on the political spectrum. Economic and Social axes. Liberal and Conservative is one dimension (Economic) and Authoritarian and Libertarian is another dimension (Social).

In the US both the Democratic Party (Liberal) and Republican Party (Conservatives) are considered Authoritarian on this 2 dimensional graph.

Milei claims to be a Conservative Libertarian so, in theory, he should be opposed to this. We'll see what he actually does.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#126

Post by macintux »

lambda wrote: post #95
kykat wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be so sure, I think the ultimate goal is to link your network activity to your government id, just like the way it's done in China. So the only root left is the government basically.

The whole point of the California/Colorado laws is to provide an alternative to that. The whole point is that it provides a privacy preserving way to provide a signal about whether someone is in a particular age bracket, without requiring any kind of third party ID verification. I am so puzzled by everyone who objects so strongly to these operating system based opt in systems; all it does is provide for a way for a p…

> I am so puzzled by everyone who objects so strongly to these operating system based opt in systems

The government legislating APIs is an uncomfortable precedent given the culture wars that are raging right now. There seems little reason to expect this will stop here.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#127

Post by rkeene2 »

toast0 wrote: post #81
eek2121 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, firstly, before I dive into your comment; about the topic above, this is the result of a terrible headline gone wrong in a single state in the US. The language never required any changes to Linux, or Windows, or any other operating system, for that matter. Someone read the text, and made a clickbaity headline, and it went viral. then, another state made a similar bill, and it went viral again.Age verification isn…

The text of the law says: > 1798.501. (a) An operating system provider shall do all of the following: > (1) Provide an accessible interface at account setup that requires an account holder to indicate the birth date, age, or both, of the user of that device for the purpose of providing a signal regarding the user’s age bracket to applications available in a covered application store. [And some other stuff]. A simple…

To me, the biggest issue is that it seems to think of computers as something you use while being near and having only one user at a time accessing, where computers you use might be far away and have thousands of people accessing them per day with hundreds of concurrent users and tens of thousands of accounts.

If you don't intentionally allow accounts access to any app stores, do you still need to collect the data ? It says to collect it, and that's the purpose but it doesn't say if you're not permitting that purpose you don't have to collect it

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#128

Post by [deleted] »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #121
nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

> Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications. This is absolutely not true. Here in the UK schools are swarming with ipads and shit like that. They're given to primary school children because they're "more engaging". Children are supposed to practice their reading and even handwriting[1] on ipads. Naturally they're on youtube instead. It's really bad. As far as…

[deleted]

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#129

Post by coldtea »

nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

It's part of a whole bundle of tightening censorship and increasing control in a pivot towards techno-feudalism, and militarization of society...

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#130

Post by themafia »

bigDinosaur wrote: post #120
bananaflag wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trade, wars, stuff like that. Foreign affairs, not domestic affairs.

All discussion of foreign affairs is the discussion of domestic affairs somewhere.

So it seems normal that a bunch of politicians, in the current climate, got together and decided that the weakest form of age verification imaginable absolutely had to get passed everywhere?

That's incomprehensible to me.

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