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BitcoinStore Launch - Cheaper In Bitcoin

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Re: BitcoinStore Launch - Cheaper In Bitcoin

#21

Post by Rastafarian »

taligent wrote: post #12
nirvana wrote: post #11

This is very interesting, and I hope it is a success. Since the government can't shut down bitcoins by stealing them (how they ended the last attempt at a sound currency- the FBI perpetrated a heist where they stole $8M in Platinum, Gold and Silver).... they will have to take more direct methods, like passing a law, or calling this "money laundering". If they don't, then things like this will proliferate, and the onl…

You know what all you delusional conspiracy theorists keep forgetting. That roughly the same financial system model in the US exists in many other countries. So does that mean that there is a mini-conspiracy in each country or is it between countries ? Anyway this whole government is scared of Bitcoin is ridiculous. They know, just like everyone else does, that Bitcoin is nothing but a modern day pyramid scheme that…

Yeah, it's between countries. The same same small group of people owns the majority share in the Fed and controls almost all central banks worldwide. The independent central banks are disappearing one by one - Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan.

You can as well say that flat currencies and fractional reserve banking are modern day pyramid scheme, that disproportionally rewards those participants that have a banking license.

Re: BitcoinStore Launch - Cheaper In Bitcoin

#22

Post by seagreen »

nirvana wrote: post #11

This is very interesting, and I hope it is a success. Since the government can't shut down bitcoins by stealing them (how they ended the last attempt at a sound currency- the FBI perpetrated a heist where they stole $8M in Platinum, Gold and Silver).... they will have to take more direct methods, like passing a law, or calling this "money laundering". If they don't, then things like this will proliferate, and the onl…

Source, please. Are you thinking of Liberty Dollars? If so, don't you think having quotes like this[2] on their website, "I simply hand them the currency as payment. 95% of the businesses accept it" make it sound a lot like they were encouraging counterfeiting?

If you think I'm making too strong of a claim, read the "Works Just Like US Dollars" section of the website. I could be misinterpreting it, but it seems really fishy.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar

[2] http://web.archive.org/web/20090627011653/http://www.liberty...

Re: BitcoinStore Launch - Cheaper In Bitcoin

#23

Post by rdl »

BitcoinStore wrote: post #17
rdl wrote: post #14

I'm curious what licit, low volume, etc. products actually would make sense to sell in Bitcoin vs. something else. The best thing I can come up with is online-delivered services from non-US (and ideally, non-developed financial system) countries, to other non-developed-financial-system countries. Like, a guy in Zimbabwe who wants to provide an online service to someone from PNG. Which is really a stretch to imagine.

The advantage to using Bitcoin is that there are no payment processing fees. What we're able to cut with BitcoinStore is that 1-10% fee that Visa, PayPal, et al. charge especially when dealing with products that have a high chargeback risks. So the products that sell best when using Bitcoin have high chargeback risks associated with them.

High chargeback risk makes sense; the 1-3% fee otherwise doesn't really make a business, given how widespread credit cards are, etc., IMO.

So, selling prepaid cards online would be a particular niche, maybe, or other things which are cash-equivalent.

Re: BitcoinStore Launch - Cheaper In Bitcoin

#24

Post by taligent »

ilf10 wrote: post #13
taligent wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what all you delusional conspiracy theorists keep forgetting. That roughly the same financial system model in the US exists in many other countries. So does that mean that there is a mini-conspiracy in each country or is it between countries ? Anyway this whole government is scared of Bitcoin is ridiculous. They know, just like everyone else does, that Bitcoin is nothing but a modern day pyramid scheme that…

How is that not different from our current system? Early participants acquired huge savings that continue to accumulate, so the rich get richer, requiring newer participants(immigrants) to help prop up the system and make the rich even richer. The only difference is bitcoins are a pyramid scheme that governments cannot control.

So if it's the same as the status quo (only less flexible, usable, stable and secure) then which should I or anybody else care ?

And this idea that governments couldn't control Bitcoin is just laughable. They could get into the mining business and distort the currency beyond repair. They could setup Bitcoin->USD/JP/etc exchanges to track people. They could simply unite together and declare it illegal internationally. Plenty of things.

Point is that it's going nowhere. I do want an alternate way of paying for things and sending money. But I want security, identity and fairness built into it.

Re: BitcoinStore Launch - Cheaper In Bitcoin

#25

Post by BitcoinStore »

rdl wrote: post #23
BitcoinStore wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advantage to using Bitcoin is that there are no payment processing fees. What we're able to cut with BitcoinStore is that 1-10% fee that Visa, PayPal, et al. charge especially when dealing with products that have a high chargeback risks. So the products that sell best when using Bitcoin have high chargeback risks associated with them.

High chargeback risk makes sense; the 1-3% fee otherwise doesn't really make a business, given how widespread credit cards are, etc., IMO. So, selling prepaid cards online would be a particular niche, maybe, or other things which are cash-equivalent.

For the 1-3% fee businesses, it does actually make sense. Especially with really low-margin sites. Think of your local grocery store offering a cash discount because of credit card fees, those businesses really do exist on the margin.

Re: BitcoinStore Launch - Cheaper In Bitcoin

#26

Post by john78 »

taligent wrote: post #12
nirvana wrote: post #11

This is very interesting, and I hope it is a success. Since the government can't shut down bitcoins by stealing them (how they ended the last attempt at a sound currency- the FBI perpetrated a heist where they stole $8M in Platinum, Gold and Silver).... they will have to take more direct methods, like passing a law, or calling this "money laundering". If they don't, then things like this will proliferate, and the onl…

You know what all you delusional conspiracy theorists keep forgetting. That roughly the same financial system model in the US exists in many other countries. So does that mean that there is a mini-conspiracy in each country or is it between countries ? Anyway this whole government is scared of Bitcoin is ridiculous. They know, just like everyone else does, that Bitcoin is nothing but a modern day pyramid scheme that…

There's nothing theoretical about what's he's suggesting.

You'd be referring to BIS.org, the central banker's bank, which was setup in 1930 for reparation payments to Germany. The bank was almost dissolved in 1944 after allegations it facilitated Nazi Germany's looting of other countries assets. Two of its directors were convicted at the Nuremberg trials and one owned the bank used by the Gestapo. But the modern father of economics, John Maynard Keynes, was a prominent voice against its dissolution.

I believe the very existence of the bank was denied publicly for years. Today they have assets around $400 billion and are immune from any jurisdiction (based in Basel, Switzerland). There is nothing American about the Federal Reserve system nor its international counterpart, the BIS. It's an oligarchy and extremely corrupt. The reports of the BIS have numbers like "$147 trillion" referring to currency swaps etc. It's a fascinating look at how international banking works, all of which is public now.

As for the Liberty Dollar, it existed for around 8-years and had letters from the Treasury, Secret Service and others attesting to its legality. As soon as Liberty Dollar made millions of dollars in Ron Paul coins, they were indicted and their customer's property was seized. However, the Liberty Dollar's marketing plans for the promotion of their alternative currency were deceptive and likely illegal.

Re: BitcoinStore Launch - Cheaper In Bitcoin

#27

Post by jhales »

um... the first thing I looked at: http://www.bitcoinstore.com/hp-folio-13-b2a32ut-13-3-quot-le...

vs. the first google hit: http://www.amazon.com/HP-Folio-B2A32UT-13-3-Inch-Ultrabook/d...

It would be nice if there were some concrete examples advertised of newegg/amazon etc. being undercut.

Re: BitcoinStore Launch - Cheaper In Bitcoin

#28

Post by csense »

taligent wrote: post #12
nirvana wrote: post #11

This is very interesting, and I hope it is a success. Since the government can't shut down bitcoins by stealing them (how they ended the last attempt at a sound currency- the FBI perpetrated a heist where they stole $8M in Platinum, Gold and Silver).... they will have to take more direct methods, like passing a law, or calling this "money laundering". If they don't, then things like this will proliferate, and the onl…

You know what all you delusional conspiracy theorists keep forgetting. That roughly the same financial system model in the US exists in many other countries. So does that mean that there is a mini-conspiracy in each country or is it between countries ? Anyway this whole government is scared of Bitcoin is ridiculous. They know, just like everyone else does, that Bitcoin is nothing but a modern day pyramid scheme that…

> pyramid scheme that disproportionally rewards early participants and relies on new entrants

Only the miner who discovers new bitcoins gets "rewarded" by the system; every other person who receives the bitcoins later gets them in exactly the same ways that other people get currency -- by participating in economic transactions. So no, it doesn't rely on new entrants for anything; if people stopped joining tomorrow, or if people stopped mining tomorrow, current participants would still be able to trade with each other and get value out of it.

The system is designed so that coins are minted at a steady rate. There is some additional reward for early adopters in terms of less power required per coin for mining. But there is also risk for early adopters: If you're a miner you have to buy real equipment and electricity which costs real dollars today, without a guarantee that you'll be able to liquidate the Bitcoins it produces to recoup your investment (which may take years). A healthy market should have a reward premium built into the success payoff of a risky investment.

Re: BitcoinStore Launch - Cheaper In Bitcoin

#29

Post by nas »

csense wrote: post #28
taligent wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what all you delusional conspiracy theorists keep forgetting. That roughly the same financial system model in the US exists in many other countries. So does that mean that there is a mini-conspiracy in each country or is it between countries ? Anyway this whole government is scared of Bitcoin is ridiculous. They know, just like everyone else does, that Bitcoin is nothing but a modern day pyramid scheme that…

> pyramid scheme that disproportionally rewards early participants and relies on new entrants Only the miner who discovers new bitcoins gets "rewarded" by the system; every other person who receives the bitcoins later gets them in exactly the same ways that other people get currency -- by participating in economic transactions. So no, it doesn't rely on new entrants for anything; if people stopped joining tomorrow, o…

> Only the miner who discovers new bitcoins gets "rewarded" by the system

And that reward is really just compensation for keeping the whole system difficult to attack. Mining is not cheap, you need expensive hardware and electricity. I like to think of a miner as a transaction notarizer (e.g. like a notary public). Miner is definitely the wrong term, IMHO.

Re: BitcoinStore Launch - Cheaper In Bitcoin

#30

Post by jamoes »

taligent wrote: post #24
ilf10 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that not different from our current system? Early participants acquired huge savings that continue to accumulate, so the rich get richer, requiring newer participants(immigrants) to help prop up the system and make the rich even richer. The only difference is bitcoins are a pyramid scheme that governments cannot control.

So if it's the same as the status quo (only less flexible, usable, stable and secure) then which should I or anybody else care ? And this idea that governments couldn't control Bitcoin is just laughable. They could get into the mining business and distort the currency beyond repair. They could setup Bitcoin->USD/JP/etc exchanges to track people. They could simply unite together and declare it illegal internationally.…

>And this idea that governments couldn't control Bitcoin is just laughable. They could get into the mining business and distort the currency beyond repair. They could setup Bitcoin->USD/JP/etc exchanges to track people. They could simply unite together and declare it illegal internationally. Plenty of things.

Getting into the mining business would only help bitcoin, by further securing the network. It certainly won't allow them to distort the currency, since the rate of coin generation is built into the protocol.

Setting up exchanges really wouldn't undermine anything, people just won't use them if they know they're being tracked by them.

Uniting together and declaring it illegal is their only option, but they will have trouble justifying why it should be illegal. And they will also have trouble enforcing it, short of shutting down the entire internet.

It really is a fascinating technology, and if you truly want an alternative way of securely sending money, I'd suggest doing more research on it.

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