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Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

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Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#771
post #125

I think the problem for xAI is that it can really only hire two types of researchers - people who are philosophically aligned with Elon, and people who are solely money-motivated (not a judgment). But frontier AI research is a field with a lot of top talent who have strong philosophical motivation for their work, and those philosophies are often completely at odds with Elon. OpenAI and Anthropic have philosophical ni…

Even people who are purely money motivated have an instinct for self-preservation.

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#772
post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why did Tesla work initially? Becaues they were ~first to market - and honestly, as a tesla driver for the last 6 years - It's the best car I ever owned (including Toyota, Mazda, and domestics). 6 years ago, for the effective price of a Honda Accord, I was able to get a car with excellent AWD for NorEast winters, perfect weight distribution (previously drove a Miata for comparison), could beat ~95% 'super cars' in…

Not sure which car you compare it to specifically from those manufacturers, but teslas seem much more expensive where I live than most models of those. Comparing it to corresponding BMW would be a more appropriate comparison. Then comparison of quality of manufacturing and driving experience would end up in very different way (as driver of even older bmw 5 series teslas I've been to feel very cheap, and driving enjoy…

This is the archetype I have seen for most fans of Tesla and people who think they make good cars. They assume a $50,000 car (their current Tesla) should compare with a $20,000 car (their previous Honda/Mazda). The Tesla market is also the market with BMWs and Porsches, and dollar for dollar you get a lot more from a BMW than a Tesla.

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the workforce he laid off were content moderators -- I've read it was a serious effort with a large number of people doing thankless work. There is now way more anti-Semitic content on X, more racial insults, etc.

Come on. No they weren't.

Well not just content moderators, but he gutted Trust and Safety and the content moderation function of the company, which is surprisingly larger than the moderators themselves. Having worked peripherally with similar departments that had multiple teams, even though a lot of it comes down to human moderators, there is a ton of technology around the moderators, and even more keeping the content getting to them in the first place.

Firstly, this is a red queen’s race because like security, new types of unwanted content, threats and risks keep arising as the information (and misinformation) landscape and overall zeitgeist keeps shifting. The work is never done and the best that can be done is to build platforms and frameworks to streamline it. There is also a lot of fractal complexity everywhere.

E.g. there’s a ton of technology needed to support the moderators themselves. Infrastructure like review queues to enable them to rapidly handle content classified by type, risk level and priority. Like Jira but not Jira because it can’t scale to the number of queues and issues involved here. So you basically re-implement and maintain a Greenspun’s 10th rule version of Jira.

There is still a huge amount of invisible complexity beyond that. For instance, you need to manage how much of a certain type of content gets exposed to a given moderator because some types (CSAM, gore) lead to burnout and PTSD. You also need to blur these things.

(Also the same type of content often gets reshared, so you need things like reverse image search to auto-filter that, because running the whole pipeline each time is expensive.)

This of course necessitates a ton of machine learning. Because risks keep shifting, and (pre-LLMs) each type requires the entire ML lifecycle and related infra: collecting and cleaning data, building classifiers for them, deploying them, seeing how well they work, and tuning them, and then replacing them when the bad actors eventually adapt to newer means.

ML is also of course needed for bots, spam and scams, which keep evolving. Entirely different techniques here though.

Then there is all the infra needed to handle the fallout of moderation. Counting strikes against users, dealing with their complaints, handling escalations, each case with a long history of interactions that needs to be collated for quick evaluation. Easier said than done because of course the backend is not an RDBMS but a bunch of MongoDB-alikes because webscale.

And all of this is a signal for the ranking used for feed, the main product, which keeps evolving, so a ton of “fire and motion” happening there. You introduce a new feature in the feed? You just introduced a dozen different abuse vectors.

Then there are policy makers and the technology needed to support them. Policy is always shifting as the landscape is shifting. This also includes dealing with regulations, which are also often shifting and require ways to deal with legal requirements and various legal systems like NCMEC. And this varies by jurisdiction. Like not just by countries, sometimes even by states.

(Funny story about NCMEC – it has an API to report CSAM, but I could not find it. So I googled something like “child porn API” and got a blank results page. Pretty sure I’m now on a list somewhere.)

I could go on and on. And I wasn’t even working in this area, just supporting these teams! Admittedly in our case I'd put the relevant headcount in the hundreds and not thousands, but our scale was also very different. For a company that is ENTIRELY about user-generated content at massive scale, up to national-level events like Arab Spring -- even if there was a lot of bloat -- I would not be surprised to learn this function was the majority of the workforce.

And Elon killed pretty much all of this. And, well, we see the results everyday.

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#774
post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on. No they weren't.

Well not just content moderators, but he gutted Trust and Safety and the content moderation function of the company, which is surprisingly larger than the moderators themselves. Having worked peripherally with similar departments that had multiple teams, even though a lot of it comes down to human moderators, there is a ton of technology around the moderators, and even more keeping the content getting to them in the…

I get that he shredded trust & safety, and that Twitter got way worse afterwards in that regard. But he fired more than half the workforce, and they were not mostly T&S people.

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many projects in his companies seem to be more and more Musk's vanity projects than ideas/products one can take seriously. This is also how tesla ended up with a huge cybertruck stock that nobody wants to buy and thus had to be bought by his other companies. And it is becoming worse and worse, especially ever since he bought twitter and sped up his twitting rates.

Drivel. They’re selling just as well as Rivians.

They're not even selling as well as Volkswagens here anymore.

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#776
Grok 4.20-beta1 scores above GPT-5.4-high and just behind Opus 4.6 on LMArena for Text https://arena.ai/leaderboard

I guess for coding if you’re not first you’re last, but this is damn impressive considering. It looked like they pulled the coding model from the benchmarks, but it was similar.

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll get there. Initial implementation was just talk to Grok . Now it has improved to allow adjustments to navigation routes.

I mean, even Google Home and Alexa could handle playing a song on Spotify by me asking for it a decade ago . It's baffling that wasn't one of the first things implemented in Grok for Tesla.

The built-in assistant already does a great job of this, so whatever they do with Grok they'll want it to be better in some way. Like, "help me find songs similar to..." or "help me find that one song by that one guy with these lyrics".

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the case at every company I've worked at. When the CEO says jump, the response is to jump or pack your stuff. What's special about xAI/Tesla/SpaceX?

I think most people would agree that Elon is a particularly fickle, childish, petty, and unstable human being.

But the person you're replying to's point is that CEOs often behave like this. What if the difference is that this one tweets all day long, while the others behave the same to their staff but sit behind expensive shiny wooden desks?

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "grokipedia" as idea So you can understand someone not liking something, but you cannot understand that person liking the idea of an alternative? What is the idea for you if not just an alternative to the established service with the undesired part changed?

Because not liking something does not imply liking any possible alternative. Which one is the "undesirable part changed" here? Wikipedia is written by humans, it has a not-for-profit governance model, it encompasses a large, international community of authors/editors that attempt to operate democratically, it has an investment/commitment in being an openly available and public source of information. Grokipedia, on th…

I'll spell out the argument:

Wikipedia is fine for uncontroversial facts. The obscure ones can have individual mistakes but it's generally correct.

For controversial topics, it's an eternal battle between factions of "volunteers" trying to present their view of a conflict. The articles reflect which side has the best organized influencer operations. Factual truth may or may not shine through, but as a side effect, not a result of the governing process.

Grokipedia operates by Grok writing what it considers the true and interesting facts. That doesn't mean it's always right, but it's a model far less influenced by influencer operations.

I wildly disagree with the critique based on the wealth of the top executive. I care about the truth and quality of the articles.

Re: Elon Musk pushes out more xAI founders as AI coding effort falters

#780
post #134

I don't use it myself, but I feel like the way Grok is integrated into Twitter is a pretty good thing for discussions, as it is certainly a more objective and rational voice than most human participants. I think it's good that people tag @grok if they don't understand something or want an opinion, even if it looks pretty silly to see "@grok is this true" repeated multiple times in replies. That said, Musk's attempts…

I disagree, I find that the grok replies are terrible product UX. Not only do they clog up the replies of every popular post, they're also constrained to extremely short answers with no sources. The community notes system, while also flawed in its own ways, is at least not nearly as disruptive and usually provides a link. Trying to make social media a source of truthful information is always an uphill battle and doub…

I like you can ask Grok to search the social graph and comments. Hacker news also has one semantic search engine (https://hackersearch.net/), reddit has none and it's a pity.
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