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Emacs and Vim in the Age of AI

batsov.com

11–20 of 155 posts

Re: Emacs and Vim in the Age of AI

#11
In my mind I had the opposite picture than the one the article portrays.

Emacs was lagging behind common IDEs, like IntelliJ and VsCode, cause big companies put thousands of developers to combine many features into one integrated package and everything works together providing a very smooth experience compared to Emacs (and Vim probably).

Now IDEs are useless. I personally haven't felt the need to goto_definition or autocomplete variable names for almost 2 years.

Now programming becomes closer to plain text writing and editing and it levels the playing fields for all editors.

Also Emacs can run Rust plugins, the user is not limited to Elisp. Not very convenient but possible.

Re: Emacs and Vim in the Age of AI

#12
emacsclient + codex has been a game changer.

I probably add or change a feature in emacs once a day, or every other day. I've been using emacs for some insane amount of time, maybe 20 years? And still I had more customization to go.

Emacs and programs with it's level of programmatic user customization will survive the AI period in my opinion. Anything static will falter.

Re: Emacs and Vim in the Age of AI

#13
> Part of the case for Emacs and Vim has always been that they make you faster at writing and editing code.

That was a side-effect of using software that is deeply customizable, but not the main goal. It comes from being comfortable with your tools to the point of relying on muscle memory to use them. The main benefit to me has always been comfort. My favorite commands are a keystroke away, I know how the tool will react and what it's doing at any moment, I know all of its quirks, etc.

None of that changes in the age of "AI". This new technology won't replace computing for me. My hurdle to adopting "agentic" workflows has nothing to do with my choice of tools, and everything with not trusting the companies and ecosystems around this new tech, especially during this insane hype cycle. I've been slowly adopting parts of the stack I'm comfortable with, because, again, my comfort trumps anything else.

Besides, if anything, a deeply customizable platform like Emacs is ideal for building any type of workflow. There are already great packages for LLM integration, and I don't think Emacs users are missing out on anything. The fact "AI" companies decide to build their moats with custom tooling is not a problem I care about. Apple has been pushing their idea of what computing should look like for decades, and it has never appealed to me. I don't miss something I don't want.

Anyway, confusing article. The author acknowledges all of these points, but also the alternative scenarios. Both cannot be true for the same person. There will always be people who enjoy using Emacs and Vim because of their customizability, not necessarily their features. And there will always be people who just want to use a supported and official product, without any tinkering. Emacs and Vim will outlast this hype cycle just fine.

Thanks for all your work, batsov! I do hope you stick around these communities. :)

Re: Emacs and Vim in the Age of AI

#14
I have been an emacs user for almost a decade now.

My laptop taskbar is: terminal, filebrowser, emacs, firefox.

With emacsd running to make startup instance.

This week I removed emacsd service and Emacs from my taskbar because I had more miss-clicks - accidentally opening it - than I had need for it in the past few months.

Re: Emacs and Vim in the Age of AI

#15
I find Emacs better than ever in the age of AI. Install agent-shell to run Claude Code inside Emacs and give it a skill to run Emacs Lisp using emacsclient. Voila - now you have all the integration you could ever need if you are a little resourceful.

Claude Code can now introspect the entire editor and it can manipulate everything. You can have it build whatever features are missing - it will even debug those features for you, live in the editor.

I recently came back to Emacs from VSCode and ended up just letting Claude build me the features I was missing, mainly related to tabs and project management.

I think Emacs has unique advantages in the age of LLMs, you can just mold it like clay.

Re: Emacs and Vim in the Age of AI

#16
I'm not convinced that terminal orientedness of AI tooling itself will last. My hypothesis is that it was chosen by developers of the current generation building for developers of the current generation. I hypothesize that there is a future where command lines and terminals don't matter, and hence I feel the focus will shift to, as the author points out, to planning, reviewing and ideation tools none of which demands a command line. In fact I expect an entirely new class of tool to emerge that does these things well that is neither an IDE nor terminal based. I think Claude Code's core will live but it's interface will morph in the coming years to adapt to the builders of the next generation. The analogy I use is my kids and manual transmission cars -- they grow up with EVs and single gear drives with linear torque curves, and will have no nostalgia for a manual transmission, engine noises, or supercharger whines. If you never used a terminal, will you pine for it?

Re: Emacs and Vim in the Age of AI

#17
I have been a die hard emacs user for 20 years, and I have a very nice emacs setup (if a little bit idiosyncratic, but all emacs configs are idiosyncratic). However, recently I realized that I read code, but almost never write it. What is more, I spend a lot of time doing it in tmux, over mosh, from my phone. Emacs ergonomy is just not great if all you have is a horrible phone keyboard (and no swiping, because tmux redraws the screen if you swipe). And then I discovered helix. It has all the things I was jealous about vim, BUT it has sane defaults ootb. And truth be told, another thing I use a lot is bat, which is cat with syntax highlighting and an automatic pager.

Re: Emacs and Vim in the Age of AI

#19

How much of this article was AI written? I can sense the AI smell all over the place, also I found it way too long with little substance, but maybe that’s just me.

At this point a lot of the articles on this site are just a 'prompt' for us to have a discussion about.

Re: Emacs and Vim in the Age of AI

#20
In my view, Emacs is getting more powerful in the AI era. The cost of writing Elisp has dropped significantly — I've ended up with 15+ personal Elisp packages as a result. The freedom Emacs offers is still unmatched. For example, I heavily rely on sending automatic response (https://github.com/ywatanabe1989/emacs-claude-code), monitoring repository, and targeted context building from dired.
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