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E2E encrypted messaging on Instagram will no longer be supported after 8 May

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Re: E2E encrypted messaging on Instagram will no longer be supported after 8 May

#91

Post by starkparker »

aavci wrote: post #52
everdrive wrote: post #36

There's a general trend right now against privacy and in a more general sense against freedom. More and more companies are on board with it. I'm not sure if anyone in HN has any useful advice in this regard. I feel like I don't know what to do about the internet for the next 5-10 years. Does this particular measure matter very much? No, but it's another brick in the wall.

I wonder if promoting open-source tooling and best practices could make it easier for new apps to adopt security features like E2E encryption. For example, someone building a chat app might not add E2E encryption unless they have access to user-friendly tools and are encouraged to do so. Startups that initially choose the more private implementation version often face a disadvantage. They may not see immediate benefi…

That's all fine and good but this is Meta removing an existing implementation. How would you stop decisions like that?

Re: E2E encrypted messaging on Instagram will no longer be supported after 8 May

#92

Post by dfxm12 »

everdrive wrote: post #36

There's a general trend right now against privacy and in a more general sense against freedom. More and more companies are on board with it. I'm not sure if anyone in HN has any useful advice in this regard. I feel like I don't know what to do about the internet for the next 5-10 years. Does this particular measure matter very much? No, but it's another brick in the wall.

In this specific case you can avoid Meta. In general, if you're in the US, you probably have a primary election coming up soon and certainly have a general election in November. Ask your politicians what their thoughts are on these topics and make an informed vote. Continue to pressure the incumbents as well.

Re: E2E encrypted messaging on Instagram will no longer be supported after 8 May

#93

Post by avallach »

Isn't this actually improving safety by openly admitting how things always were in practice?

Any e2e encryption provided by the same entity who fully controls both the blackbox clients, and the server in between, is just a security theatre that they can selectively bypass anytime with very little risk of detection. Not really much better than simple client to server encryption.

Truly safe e2e requires open source client provided by a trusted entity who is as much as possible independent from the one who provides the untrusted transport layer. Eg how pgp email works.

Re: E2E encrypted messaging on Instagram will no longer be supported after 8 May

#94

Post by trinsic2 »

john_strinlai wrote: post #88
trinsic2 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>unfortunately, since the messaging/trend isnt "we are against privacy" (it is "we are protecting children, which reluctantly means we all have to sacrifice a wee bit of privacy"), it is really hard to fight back without being labelled as someone who is against protecting children. That's not what I am seeing on the ground. Many discord users I have seen talk about this issue frame this as an attack on freedom and pr…

> Many discord users I have seen talk about this issue frame this as an attack on freedom good! ideally, someone is helping them organize and action those thoughts and feelings outside of whatever discord channel you are in. i am referring to how it is being framed by the people pushing the agenda. age verification laws (as an easy example) arent being advertised as "we want to spy on you", they are being advertised…

Agreed. What I meant to say is at least the younger generation are starting to see past this smoke screen more so now than maybe 20 years ago.

Re: E2E encrypted messaging on Instagram will no longer be supported after 8 May

#95

Post by scarecrowbob »

newsoftheday wrote: post #80
peyton wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a California resident I request to download my personal data from every service I can, and I’m constantly surprised. We each have scores for all kinds of things. The local power company keeps a “Green Ideology” score on me.

When I see the word "score", it reminds me of the CCP social scoring system.

Weird... when I see something done by US-Based capitalist and attributed to communists half a world away, it makes me think of the Powell Memo.

Re: E2E encrypted messaging on Instagram will no longer be supported after 8 May

#96

Post by natch »

wiether wrote: post #61
peyton wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a California resident I request to download my personal data from every service I can, and I’m constantly surprised. We each have scores for all kinds of things. The local power company keeps a “Green Ideology” score on me.

How is that even legal?

This is in the US. It’s a free country. Things are legal by default (that’s a good thing) until the system notices them and makes a law.

Having seen how things work where freedom is not the default, I much prefer freedom.

Re: E2E encrypted messaging on Instagram will no longer be supported after 8 May

#97

Post by trinsic2 »

fsflover wrote: post #79
everdrive wrote: post #36

There's a general trend right now against privacy and in a more general sense against freedom. More and more companies are on board with it. I'm not sure if anyone in HN has any useful advice in this regard. I feel like I don't know what to do about the internet for the next 5-10 years. Does this particular measure matter very much? No, but it's another brick in the wall.

> I feel like I don't know what to do about the internet for the next 5-10 years. Switch to decentralized, e2ee alternatives, support https://eff.org

I feel like e2ee on phones with OSes from the big two is a lost cause. I'll bet this is the year where open hardware/bios starts getting more popular, hopefully. So we can have open hardware/software.

Re: E2E encrypted messaging on Instagram will no longer be supported after 8 May

#98

Post by john_strinlai »

avallach wrote: post #93

Isn't this actually improving safety by openly admitting how things always were in practice? Any e2e encryption provided by the same entity who fully controls both the blackbox clients, and the server in between, is just a security theatre that they can selectively bypass anytime with very little risk of detection. Not really much better than simple client to server encryption. Truly safe e2e requires open source cli…

one thing to consider is how just the optics of major players using e2e was an overall benefit.

people who otherwise would have gone their entire lives without ever hearing about encryption were exposed to the term and the marketing convinced them that encryption and privacy was a valuable thing, even if they didnt fully understand the mechanisms or why e2e might not necessarily be very effective in specific circumstances.

later, when presented between option a and option b, where one has encryption and the other doesnt, they are more likely to choose the one with it ("well, if instagram and facebook use it and say it is good...")

Re: E2E encrypted messaging on Instagram will no longer be supported after 8 May

#99

Post by dheera »

everdrive wrote: post #36

There's a general trend right now against privacy and in a more general sense against freedom. More and more companies are on board with it. I'm not sure if anyone in HN has any useful advice in this regard. I feel like I don't know what to do about the internet for the next 5-10 years. Does this particular measure matter very much? No, but it's another brick in the wall.

E2EE on Instagram was never real, trustable E2EE. No open-source client, no way to verify that private key is never sent to server, and encryption of a key with a low-entropy PIN is effectively plaintext.

Re: E2E encrypted messaging on Instagram will no longer be supported after 8 May

#100

Post by happosai »

ultratalk wrote: post #59
krystalgamer wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't understand this doomer mentality regarding the internet. internet is a service that you choose what to engage and how. don't like a platform? find another, build it or stop using it altogether. personally, i find these things really great has it helps nudge people into the more decentralized web. a few years ago those who were pushing for privacy respecting apps and platforms were deemed too paranoid.

Network effects will keep a person on a platform until a critical mass of their social circle decide to leave all at once. I'm no expert, but I suspect that that critical mass is pretty high, maybe more than 50% of a person's circle. So it's not exactly vanilla free-market competition. Entrenched players have a pretty big advantage.

Ah Network effect, That's why we all are still using Skype, microsoft messenger and ICQ.

You don't have to wait for everyone to switch, in fact it's pretty normal to reach different people on different chats.

https://xkcd.com/1810/

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