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Executing programs inside transformers with exponentially faster inference

percepta.ai

31–40 of 139 posts

Re: Executing programs inside transformers with exponentially faster inference

#31

Interesting... But why? What is the benefit, other than increasing our understanding of model architectures? Our brains can also simulate turing machines, slowly. We automated that with computers that are faster and more reliable. So why not allow a model to use external much faster and reliable tools, just as we do?

I spent the entire time reading it pondering the same thing.

1. The article presents that calling out to a tool like python is "expensive" because of the overhead of forking a process, loading up the python env etc, but why not just eliminate that overhead and embed WebAssembly so this "tool call" is near zero? This feels very similar to the discussion in the 90's around the overhead of threads v.s. processes or kernel space v.s. user space. Could even go further and have a running beam vm so the LLM can write elixir which is ideal for LLM's that stream out code? Elixir programs will be a lot shorter than webassembly.

2. The core argument stated is "A system that cannot compute cannot truly internalize what computation is." The idea being that it could write a program, execute it and by seeing all of the steps maybe even part way through stop and change its mind or when writing new programs write them better, aka be able to debug on the fly?

3. Not mentioned, but there is a 3rd x factor that LLM's will use this new found computation engine to do overall better at "thinking". Computing in very unexpected ways and to unexpected problems. Maybe it would do dramatically better at some benchmark because of this?

Unfortunately these are not explored and it is just an execution engine even resulting in the conclusion stating "arbitrary programs can be compiled directly into the transformer weights, bypassing the need to represent them as token sequences at all." which goes to point number 1 of if we are compiling to weights why not just optimize the tool calling?

Re: Executing programs inside transformers with exponentially faster inference

#34
post #9

This shows the downside of using AI to write up your project. I see the eloquent sentences, but don't get the message. > This works, but the actual execution happened outside the model. The model specified the computation, then waited for an external system to carry it out. > Our transformer also emits a program, but instead of pausing for an external tool, it executes that program itself, step by step, within the sa…

Well, for one, by eliminating external tool calling, the model gains an amount of security. This occurs because the tools being called by an LLM can be corrupted, and in this scenario corrupted tools would not be called.

Re: Executing programs inside transformers with exponentially faster inference

#36
post #21

very cool idea. But, time savings are not true for every tool call, and it's not clear to me yet whether this is batch-able; also, intuitively, for most of the models that run on GPU, you'd still want to offload tool exec part to CPU since it's much cheaper...

[flagged]

Re: Executing programs inside transformers with exponentially faster inference

#38
This seems like it has some potential, but is pretty much useless as it is.

Shame there are no weights released - let alone the "compiler" tool they used to actually synthesize computational primitives into model weights. It seems like a "small model" system that's amenable to low budget experiments, and I would love to see what this approach can be pushed towards.

I disagree with the core premise, it's basically the old neurosymbolic garbage restated, but embedding predefined computational primitives into LLMs could have some uses nonetheless.

Re: Executing programs inside transformers with exponentially faster inference

#39

This seems like it has some potential, but is pretty much useless as it is. Shame there are no weights released - let alone the "compiler" tool they used to actually synthesize computational primitives into model weights. It seems like a "small model" system that's amenable to low budget experiments, and I would love to see what this approach can be pushed towards. I disagree with the core premise, it's basically the…

If you want to experiment with hardcoding small programs into transformer weights, maybe try ALTA: https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.18077v2

Re: Executing programs inside transformers with exponentially faster inference

#40

Interesting... But why? What is the benefit, other than increasing our understanding of model architectures? Our brains can also simulate turing machines, slowly. We automated that with computers that are faster and more reliable. So why not allow a model to use external much faster and reliable tools, just as we do?

Why must models be analogous to humans using tools? Or to take the analogy route further wouldn't it be better if humans had calculators built into their brains, provided they are determisitic and reduce latency

Because it is directly analogous. Neural nets (whether biological or artificial) are not the best way to execute lots of deterministic computations quickly and reliably. That's why we invented computers.

I'm not convinced at all that this is the best way to reduce latency; there are many other ways of doing that.

Having a calculator in our brains would be handy of course, but a gigahertz multi core computer is still going to be better at anything that needs to do a lot of computation and or a lot of data.

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