Earlier quoted context omitted.
And puts are highly manipulated by MMs so you have to really study the chain and how it behaves before you have a chance to buy the contracts at a fair price. MMs will flood the market with contracts and devalue yours even when the price is moving in your direction. I highly suggest people think twice about trading options, they are best used as hedges for large positions during particularly vulnerable periods.
I’m not convinced. If you think you know what the fair price is for a put, then you can bid that price. If you don’t think you know what the fair price is, then you shouldn’t be trading options. There are reasons for not trading options, but the main reason is “you know less about price movement than you think you do”.
US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says
411–420 of 483 posts
Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says
#412So, if I’m following: Banks are lending to private equity firms to fund purchases of businesses. Many of these businesses are SaaS which means their valuations are tumbling. It seems possible that valuations tumble so much that the private equity owner no longer has any incentive to operate the business, bc all future cash flows will belong to the bank. What happens in practice then? Will banks actually step in and t…
> Banks are lending to private equity firms to fund purchases of businesses. Yes some businesses are SaaS but here's the real problem: Many businesses' sole purpose is _leveraged buy-outs_ which really is the devil in disguise. It goes like this: A VC specialising in veterinary clinics finds a nice, privately owned town clinic with regular customers and "fair" prices, approach the owners saying "we love the clinic yo…
Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says
#413Misleading title* > The default rate among U.S. corporate borrowers of private credit rose to a record 9.2% in 2025 Emphasis added. Headline makes it sound like retail credit, not corporate specifically. *Edit: Not misleading, just an unfamiliar term/usage from my perspective. I'm not a finance guy so didn't know the difference and assumed others wouldn't either. Mea culpa .
That's exactly where my mind went as soon as I read the title. HN rules say to "use the original title, unless it is misleading". I think the original title meets the misleading bar but I can't speak for other readers.
it's not programming and it's not tech
Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says
#414I think most people in this thread are missing the boat.
First, it’s important to realize that “default” does not imply wipeout. Default just means that you’ve violated a credit agreement, and that can be solved many different ways. Sometimes it’s solved by the sponsor restructuring the debt (injecting equity, asking for covenant/interest relief); sometimes it’s a true Ch 11 bankruptcy; in very rare cases, it can be a true Ch 7 liquidation. But even in those destruction-of-value scenarios, first-lien recoveries run 50-70% of “par value” borrowed. Lenders are smart, their job is to underwrite these deals, and they’re compensated for this with healthy interest rates - typically S+500-650 plus fees, which comes out to 10–12% unlevered returns. So they are basically pricing junk bonds, and in exchange get senior secured risk with real covenants around what the business can / can’t do.
Second, the myth that PE firms can just saddle a company with debt at the lender’s expense with no skin in the game and walk away with a profit while the company files for bankruptcy is hilarious, in part because it obviously doesn’t hold up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. The typical PE firm is buying a middle market business for 10-12x EBITDA on average. In today’s world, lenders will usually let you put 4.5-5.5x EBITDA on the business as leverage (in the ZIRP era, you could push things up closer to 7x, sometimes above that if it’s a stellar business). So on a typical 10x deal with 5x debt, 50% of the capital structure is PE firm equity which gets wiped out first before the lender loses a dollar. If that happens, the PE fund’s investor returns crater, which means no more Fund II/III/IV, which means no more fees for them to generate.
(As an aside, the typical “fees” paid by portfolio companies to the PE firm are, at least in modern limited partner agreements, largely offset against management fees and recaptured by the fund’s investors. The PE firm is not getting rich off these fees, at least not anymore.)
Third, private credit is not your local commercial bank. Many of the largest private credit firms are actually PE firms themselves - e.g., Apollo, Ares, and Blackstone, who are all known as “private equity” have actually become more valuable to the public investor community due to their private credit business. These are not sadsack regional banks and credit unions getting hoodwinked by New York finance elites. In many cases, they are the same firms, with the same resources (in-house restructuring / “workout” teams, portfolio ops, etc.).
It’s important to realize that private credit funds raise capital from institutions and HNW individuals with locked-up commitments - it is the exact same investor base as PE, and fundamentally a very similar business, they just invest at a different part of the capital stack. Because of this, risk of contagion is very low. Bank exposure to private credit is something like 1.5% of their portfolio - it is tiny. The extent of the blowback will be that a pension fund investing in alternatives has a poor return in one asset class across a dozen - it’s not systemic risk.
Finally, what IS true is that pre-ZIRP portfolios and software-heavy credits (something like 15-20% of leveraged loans outstanding) are in a tough spot. These businesses are either failing or they have too much debt that has “re-rated” to higher interest rates as interest rate hedges fell off. What happens from here is that the companies with structural issues in their business model will cease to exist (e.g., certain SaaS businesses). This happens all the time - it’s capitalism. But the good businesses are not going to disappear because of a bad cap structure - they will just get recapitalized.
Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says
#415Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even the best due diligence can't do anything if a crisis (not necessarily banking-related, a Middle East might just do the trick) starts manifesting itself and now many of those businesses have issues in paying down the debt they owe.
"I did my due diligence but didn't anticipate these risks". Doesn't sound like due diligence to me. Not having a plan to unwind your position if SHTF doesn't sound like due diligence to me. You can argue it any way you like but it boils down to "The money was good and I didn't think the worst was gonna happen".
Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
This completely discounts the work involved to find service providers you trust. I spent a long time finding a Doctor I trust, finding a Vet I trust, etc. I don't want a "free market" solution where I need to switch providers every 6 months because some rich dude is being a dick. This is the problem with so many market focused solutions. They discount the burden put on the consumer.
Participating in a market is work, the only way a market (or life in general) works is if you hold your counterparties accountable. > I don't want a "free market" solution where I need to switch providers every 6 months because some rich dude is being a dick. Nature does not have a mandate that good quality services and products be available at low prices at all times. The rich dude being a “dick” was a tired vet own…
Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says
#417Earlier quoted context omitted.
for the money presumably? This questions feels like you're actually making a cryptic statement but I don't understand what it is.
Usually companies that have a fantastic, growing business model don’t sell to PE. I also don’t like it when a money-losing business stops giving me below-market pricing.
- Not every business has a growth story. Not every business needs a growth story.
PE can offer a business owner more than they expect it to make by:
- being ignorant about the business (Which we are seeing repeatedly)
- intend to run it hot to juice the numbers and resell it for their profit.
Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says
#418So, if I’m following: Banks are lending to private equity firms to fund purchases of businesses. Many of these businesses are SaaS which means their valuations are tumbling. It seems possible that valuations tumble so much that the private equity owner no longer has any incentive to operate the business, bc all future cash flows will belong to the bank. What happens in practice then? Will banks actually step in and t…
> Banks are lending to private equity firms to fund purchases of businesses. Yes some businesses are SaaS but here's the real problem: Many businesses' sole purpose is _leveraged buy-outs_ which really is the devil in disguise. It goes like this: A VC specialising in veterinary clinics finds a nice, privately owned town clinic with regular customers and "fair" prices, approach the owners saying "we love the clinic yo…
I get that it's not so clean cut with something as equipment- and licensing heavy as the veterinarian sector. But I've heard the same story exemplified with pizza parlors instead. Won't all the good staff take all the loyal customers and go elsewhere very easily in that case?
Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says
#419Yeah, I'm going down a bit of a rabbit hole this morning. Turns out Wells Fargo's $59.7bn of private-credit lending is equal to 44% of its CE Tier 1 capital [1]. Meanwhile, Deutsche Bank got back to being Deutsche Bank while I was not looking [2]. [1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/72971/00000729712500... [2] https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/deutsche-bank-highl...
Deutsche gonna Deutsche. Recruitment tables should just have a banner that reads 'we've already spent your bonus on legal fees, here's some chocolate'
Re: US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says
#420Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And LBO debt isn’t “pushed” onto the company’s books, it’s never on the sponsor’s (LBO shop’s) books in the first place to any material extent. Doesn't the LBO shop still need to pay off the debt, technically speaking? AFAIU the company's assets (hospital in OP's example) are used as collateral in a credit agreement between the LBO shop (as the hospital's new shareholder) and the bank. But unless I'm mistaken, this…
LBO firm will create a new company called Acquisition Co. ("AcqCo") and put $500K of cash into it (equity). The Blue Owl will lend $2M to AcqCo (debt). AcqCo uses the $2.5M to buy the vet clinic. AcqCo will use cash flow from vet clinic to pay Blue Owl loan interest. If AI makes vet clinic lose revenue because customers treat Fluffy's ear infection at home, then Blue Owl and LBO firm are in trouble. So the debt isn't…
This is the general leap, wealthy dynasties do. They scale up from a regular (family) business that provides services (eg. the clinic) to eventually transition into investors with lesser or indirect motivation of providing services/goods.