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“This is not the computer for you”

samhenri.gold

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Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#71

Post by sublinear »

lelandbatey wrote: post #14
hackyhacky wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That kid will be much better off with a used laptop and Linux or BSD. True, and suffering through the limitations of the Apple platform will show the kid why Linux is better.

Don't downvote, it certainly did for me. My first computer was a MBP 13inch from 2009, as I was apple obsessed like the person in the parent article. Time passes and I realized I really didn't like either Windows or Mac, and for the past 10 years Ive been linux only. It really does happen, even if rarely.

My first computer was a Compaq my parents got during that peak era of home PC mass adoption in the late 90s. I immediately played a ton of games, got on AOL, learned VBScript, C++, HTML, etc.

This was such a natural and common thing that I never even questioned if others were having a different experience with computers. This sounds crazy now, but it felt as if everyone was either going to learn to program or already had, not as a career choice but as an essential form of literacy. I mean even the calculators were programmable!

To me, Macs were just "the boring computers" we had at school and what my grandparents bought. They seemed locked down and weird like an appliance. I have no idea what my life would be like now if I had grown up in a different time and with a Mac.

This isn't to hate on Macs, but to tell the story of the dominance of Microsoft at the time and how much culture shifted towards more "dumb" consumerism. By the time the first iPod came out I realized the adults had no interest in any of this more progressive future. Then the iPhone and Windows Vista confirmed it.

I installed Ubuntu on the ThinkPad I had in high school and never really looked back. To this day, I am still baffled by the obsessions people have with AI "replacing jobs" and Apple devices as status symbols. I think those people miss the point entirely and worry about their incomplete worldview being passed down to younger generations. What I see is the masses refusing to participate and technofeudalists taking advantage of them.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#72

Post by eru »

GrifMD wrote: post #68
Forgeties79 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d bet a solid 25% of the people nitpicking the Neo would’ve called it a breath of fresh air if it wasn’t made by Apple. I don’t want one, it doesn’t do what I need. But I can definitely see the use cases especially at that price point.

It reminds me of the iPhone 5C when I had a 5S, it's a beautiful colorful breath of fresh air that I wish I had but my needs are so much greater. But if I wasn't an engineer who needed a highspeced MacBook Pro I'd go with it.

I have a high specced MacBook Pro, but honestly I mostly use it for vscode tunnels to my actual dev machine.

So the only real benefit compared to my MacBook Air is that the screen is a bit nicer, and I can keep more Firefox tabs open, because it has more RAM.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#73

Post by eru »

zamadatix wrote: post #40
idontwantthis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a chromebook which is probably worse.

Chromebooks themselves can actually be great machines for hacking (in the traditional sense, not the modern security/jailbreaking sense). E.g. https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439?hl=en is arguably better than a direct typical Linux install because it's an isolated environment which won't break the main function of the device as you tinker. As the page notes though, the real problem for kids is the de…

I mostly agree. Just one thing:

> (in the traditional sense, not the modern security/jailbreaking sense)

As far as I can tell, the two senses have pretty much always existed side by side. Nothing traditional vs modern about it.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#74

Post by eru »

TheDong wrote: post #24
bitmasher9 wrote: post #13

I hope they sell so many of these, because the Mac ecosystem is just better for learning about computers then what most young people use daily.

They don't have an open source kernel. You can't recompile the kernel or build your own device drivers. I'm not sure what you mean by "learning about computers", but I personally find being able to peek into the kernel source code to be more educational than anything in the mac ecosystem. The hardware here is incredible, but it's crippled by not adequately supporting Linux, BSD, or any other properly open source kern…

Eh, qemu runs just fine, so you can peek at Linux kernel code (and recompile and experiment with it) on the Mac just as much as you can on Linux.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#75

Post by georgeecollins »

sghiassy wrote: post #8

I appreciate the article and agree. If you have a desire to learn computers, just get your hands on whatever you can and learn.

I second that! This is also how I feel about Raspberry Pis. There's so much they can't do, and yet in a way they can do everything. It's not the power of the machine, its about how much control you have or how close you can get to the metal. At least that way you learn about why you need more powerful hardware.

Chrome books and phones teach nothing.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#77

Post by JohnTHaller »

slipheen wrote: post #70
JohnTHaller wrote: post #52

I don't get the folks referring to this as a "Chromebook killer". Chromebooks start at around US$150 new. The MacBook Neo is 4 times the price at US$599. There are premium Chromebooks like the Chromebook Plus line that are more in the Neo price range, but those aren't the ones being bought for schools and such. Doesn't make the Neo a bad thing, of course, I think it's a solid basic laptop from the reviews.

I think for kids in particular, it's important to remember that the educational discount brings it down to US 500. That's not exactly nothing but that's a pretty reasonable amount for a non-crap laptop.

I used non-discounted consumer prices for both. Education discounts for both the Neo and Chromebooks will bring them down further.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#78

Post by dangus »

artimaeis wrote: post #49
dangus wrote: post #11

I like the sentiment expressed here, but on this note, I think there are other dangers to consider listening to early reviewers: - Reviewers do get early access and often are receiving units AND doing their tests, writing their script, recording, and editing their videos before regular users can even possibly get a system shipped in. At best this rushes them where they miss details (e.g., few reviewers noticed that t…

You make some great points here. Here’s one of the places I’m coming from that seems to be aligned with the author of this. I find macOS to be a superior OS for doing computer work to all the alternatives. It still sucks for a lot of reasons, but to my taste it generally sucks less. I’m a web dev, so I host a lot of crap in Linux, and I’m pretty confident in using it as a desktop. But the general day to day experienc…

I do agree on refurb/used rather than the Neo. The best low-ish cost computer Apple is selling right now is probably their refurbished $750 MacBook Air M4 with 16GB RAM/256GB storage.

The only way I'll push back on this is the Ryzen 5 AI 340 is faster at multicore than the A18 Pro. Slower single core by a slight amount, and much slower iGPU.

However, that means to compete with the MacBook Neo more completely including integrated GPU, all you have to do is go up one CPU SKU to the Ryzen 7 AI 350 and you're further increasing your multi-core performance lead as well as completely closing the iGPU gap by doubling your GPU performance.

That same Yoga laptop is offered in this configuration including extra storage (16GB RAM/1TB SSD/Ryzen 5 AI 350) for $800

That...really is only $100 more than the 512GB configuration of the MacBook Neo if we aren't tossing in the education store pricing.

Perhaps it's more of a MacBook Air competitor at that price range. Stretching up to $800 is a lot...but you do also get a lot for that stretch.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#79

Post by jayd16 »

The Neo seems kind of nice but I don't really see how it's more significant than "a nice low end computer." The article reads like its fire from Olympus but a nicer screen and trackpad is only incrementally better than what was available in Chromebooks and cheap PCs.

Personally I think a the Steam Machine will have a better chance to cheat a general computing device into the home of someone not looking for it. The Neo gives me hope on price point.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#80

Post by [deleted] »

sagarm wrote: post #46
t-writescode wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switching to developer mode is very likely something he won’t be doing nor allowed to do on the Chromebook his parents bought him or the school assigned him.

Will a managed MacBook allow the installation of random native apps, either? Though let's be realistic, here: $600 is much more than the typical school-assigned Chromebook.

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