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“This is not the computer for you”

samhenri.gold

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Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#21

Post by wolvoleo »

TheDong wrote: post #19

> The kid who tries to run Blender on a Chromebook doesn’t learn that his machine can’t handle it. He learns that Google decided he’s not allowed to. Or they learn to enable developer mode, unlock the bootloader, and install Linux, or use the officially supported Crostini, or so on. There's like 3 different ways to run Linux desktop apps on a modern Chromebook. The Macbooks don't let have an officially supported path…

You can't install a different OS on these? Are they different from the M series? Because those have Asahi Linux.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#22

Post by idontwantthis »

fragmede wrote: post #18
Stori_Rjomi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? I grew up with Windows, learned decent skills on that, probably as much as I would have on a Mac. The current mobile era stuff has put alot or control and grit away, for making things 'more accessible'.

These days it would be an iPad though.

Or a chromebook which is probably worse.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#23

Post by GianFabien »

lelandbatey wrote: post #14
hackyhacky wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That kid will be much better off with a used laptop and Linux or BSD. True, and suffering through the limitations of the Apple platform will show the kid why Linux is better.

Don't downvote, it certainly did for me. My first computer was a MBP 13inch from 2009, as I was apple obsessed like the person in the parent article. Time passes and I realized I really didn't like either Windows or Mac, and for the past 10 years Ive been linux only. It really does happen, even if rarely.

Good on you for rising up to the ranks of Linux/BSD.

You just need to recognize that not everybody aspires to be competent with lower-levels of hardware and software that Apple makes that much more difficult. Most Apple users are content to use apps written by others and that is as far as their interest goes.

An analogy is the car market. Most people don't care how the car works, etc. They just want to get to places. If you only need to drive to the shops and do minimal errands, you don't even need a truck - a sedan will do just fine. Same with computers, lots of different market segments with distinct needs and expectations.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#24

Post by TheDong »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #13

I hope they sell so many of these, because the Mac ecosystem is just better for learning about computers then what most young people use daily.

They don't have an open source kernel. You can't recompile the kernel or build your own device drivers. I'm not sure what you mean by "learning about computers", but I personally find being able to peek into the kernel source code to be more educational than anything in the mac ecosystem.

The hardware here is incredible, but it's crippled by not adequately supporting Linux, BSD, or any other properly open source kernel you can compile and install yourself. A good learning environment doesn't put up immovable barriers like "you need a kernel signed by apple", it lets you push away barriers when you're ready, like "Are you sure you want to turn off secureboot, or install your own secureboot keys"

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#25

Post by pseudocomposer »

TheDong wrote: post #19

> The kid who tries to run Blender on a Chromebook doesn’t learn that his machine can’t handle it. He learns that Google decided he’s not allowed to. Or they learn to enable developer mode, unlock the bootloader, and install Linux, or use the officially supported Crostini, or so on. There's like 3 different ways to run Linux desktop apps on a modern Chromebook. The Macbooks don't let have an officially supported path…

There’s an entire Linux distro (Asahi) for MacBooks. Apple has never released a Mac with a locked bootloader.

And macOS frankly provides a far better Unix experience than ChromeOS, in my experience, having actually used both (including for development, though only for a short time on ChromeOS because it was horrible).

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#26

Post by stuporglue »

SoftTalker wrote: post #5

> This computer is for the kid who doesn’t have a margin to optimize. Who can’t wait for the right tool to materialize. Who is going to take what’s available and push it until it breaks and learn something permanent from the breaking. That kid will be much better off with a used laptop and Linux or BSD.

I started college with a white G3 iBook. By the end of freshman year I had installed Yellow Dog Linux, then Suse, Mandriva and eventually Gentoo.

Now, 20+ years later all my home computers are running Linux (Debian though), and my kids grew up using Linux.

But I'm going to send my teenager to college with Windows or a Mac. They're going to be 1200 miles away, and they're going to need to get support for their computer and I won't be there.

Yes, I like Linux 1000x better than Windows or Mac, but Linux demands a different relationship with the admin. This kid hasn't wanted that relationship with tech, and will rely on friends to help get Office or Zoom or whatever installed.

I'm still deciding between Mac and Windows now. I'll probably end up getting a quality used business laptop from FB marketplace, but the Neo is interesting too.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#27

Post by GavinMcG »

TheDong wrote: post #24
bitmasher9 wrote: post #13

I hope they sell so many of these, because the Mac ecosystem is just better for learning about computers then what most young people use daily.

They don't have an open source kernel. You can't recompile the kernel or build your own device drivers. I'm not sure what you mean by "learning about computers", but I personally find being able to peek into the kernel source code to be more educational than anything in the mac ecosystem. The hardware here is incredible, but it's crippled by not adequately supporting Linux, BSD, or any other properly open source kern…

I’d bet 99% of professional developers have never peeked at kernel source code or built their own device drivers.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#28

Post by MBCook »

TheDong wrote: post #24
bitmasher9 wrote: post #13

I hope they sell so many of these, because the Mac ecosystem is just better for learning about computers then what most young people use daily.

They don't have an open source kernel. You can't recompile the kernel or build your own device drivers. I'm not sure what you mean by "learning about computers", but I personally find being able to peek into the kernel source code to be more educational than anything in the mac ecosystem. The hardware here is incredible, but it's crippled by not adequately supporting Linux, BSD, or any other properly open source kern…

> then what most young people use daily.

Most people are using Windows or phones where that isn’t an option.

Yeah you can root or change the OS but that seems outside the spirit of the comment to me.

These are Macs. They run Xcode and you can develop apps for your iPhone for free with one.

Yeah you need to pay to distribute, but a computer to do it has never been cheaper.

Re: “This is not the computer for you”

#29

Post by lapcat »

In my opinion, this article looks like a straw man argument, and the author appears to completely misinterpret "This is not the computer for you."

Such a statement needs to be understood in the relevant context. It's not intended to discourage kids from buying a Mac! Rather, it's intended to rebut critics who are already Mac owners and who scoff at the MacBook Neo technical specs, such as RAM. The computer is indeed not for them, people who can already afford a MacBook Pro, for example. The point of "This is not the computer for you" is the opposite of how the author characterized it: the point is that the MacBook Neo and its specs are actually fine for the people who are going to buy one.

For some strange reason, the author has invented an imaginary opponent to become offended by. We're supposed to cheer for the kids here, and I see that many people have fallen for it, but the whole schtick falls completely flat for me. The kids were never endangered or discouraged by the reviews of the MacBook Neo.

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