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Grief and the AI split

blog.lmorchard.com

11–20 of 404 posts

Re: Grief and the AI split

#11

The divide is a matter of perspective. I'm a 23+ year dev; among the highest level ICs in my org. It's still craft, its just that the craft is different. I don't write *.ts, *.cs files anymore; I write *.md files that other devs are using, that we're using as guardrails, that ensures that we minimize the slop while increasing speed and basically lift every developers level up by several notches. I went from building…

You're using it as a 'super compiler', effectively a code generator and your .md file is the new abstraction level at which you code.

But there is a price to pay: the code that you generate is not the code that you understand and when things go pear shaped you will find that that deterministic element that made compilers so successful is missing from code generated from specs dumped into an AI. If you one-shot it you will find that the next time you do this your code may come out quite different if it isn't a model that you maintain. It may contain new bugs or revive old ones. It may eliminate chunks of the code and you'll never know and so on.

There is a reason that generated code always had a bit of a smell to it and AI generated code is no different. How much time do you spend on verifying that it actually does what's written on the tin?

Do you write your own tests? Do you let the AI write the tests and the code? Are you familiar with the degree to which AIs can be manipulated to do stuff that you thought they weren't supposed to? (A friend of mine just proved this to his boss by bribing an AI with a 'nice batch of pure random data' to put a piece of unreviewed code into production by giving itself the privileges required to do so...)

Re: Grief and the AI split

#12
Lots of mentions of the term mourning... As they say in my country, don't sell the skin until you kill the bear.

All I'm seeing around me is people dropping best practices in a FOMO driven push for speed: let's stop reviews, let's drive 5 agents in parallel, let's not even look at the code!

This is going to blow up.

Only after we pick up the remains we'll find a more sustainable approach for AI usage. I suspect that version will still require crafters.

If we end up in a place where the craft truly is dead, then congratulations, your value probably just dropped to zero. Everyone who's been around startup culture knows the running jokes about those 'I have a great idea, I just need someone to code it' guys. Now you're one, and you'll find how much ideas are worth.

Re: Grief and the AI split

#14

The divide is a matter of perspective. I'm a 23+ year dev; among the highest level ICs in my org. It's still craft, its just that the craft is different. I don't write *.ts, *.cs files anymore; I write *.md files that other devs are using, that we're using as guardrails, that ensures that we minimize the slop while increasing speed and basically lift every developers level up by several notches. I went from building…

You're using it as a 'super compiler', effectively a code generator and your .md file is the new abstraction level at which you code. But there is a price to pay: the code that you generate is not the code that you understand and when things go pear shaped you will find that that deterministic element that made compilers so successful is missing from code generated from specs dumped into an AI. If you one-shot it you…

We have human reviews on every PR.

Quality and consistency are going up, not down. Partially because the agents follow the guidance much more closely than humans do and there is far less variance. Shortcuts that a human would make ("I'll just write a one-off here"), the agent does not...so long as our rules guide it properly ("Let me find existing patterns in the codebase.").

Part of it is the investment in docs we've made. Part of it is that we were already meticulous about commenting code. It turns out that when the agents stumble on this code randomly, it can read the comments (we can tell because it also updates them in PRs when it makes changes).

We are also delivering the bulk of our team level capabilities via remote MCP over HTTP so we have centralized telemetry via OTEL on tool activation, docs being read by the agents, phantom docs the agent tries to find (we then go and fill in those docs).

Re: Grief and the AI split

#15
I'm a bit in the middle. I enjoy the craft but I also seek and enjoy the result.

The thing about AI is that you don't have to use it for everything. Like any other tool you can use it as much as you'd like. Even though I like the craft, I find myself really enjoying the use of AI to do things like boilerplate code and simple tests. I hate crafting verbose grunt work, so I have AI do that. This in turn leaves me more time to do the interesting work.

I also enjoy using AI to audit, look for bugs, brainstorm, and iterate on ideas. When an idea is solid and fleshed out I'll craft the hard and interesting parts and AI-generate the boring parts.

Re: Grief and the AI split

#16
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a job that wasn't that hard to begin with The more experience I get the harder the job seems tbh

Have you gotten to the part where you barely even get to write code anymore and just manage people's expectations full time yet?

Ah, management without managing. Its depressing and engaging at the same time. Depressing because palace intrigue is exhausting and fraught with peril. Engaging because I love explaining things to people and watching everything click into place for them (see the 1 of 10k xkcd comic).

Re: Grief and the AI split

#17
post #2

This sounds right to me: > Before AI, both camps were doing the same thing every day. Writing code by hand. Using the same editors, the same languages, the same pull request workflows. The craft-lovers and the make-it-go people sat next to each other, shipped the same products, looked indistinguishable. The motivation behind the work was invisible because the process was identical. Helps explain why some people are d…

I think the real divide is over quality and standards.

We all have different thresholds for what is acceptable, and our roles as engineers typically reflect that preference. I can grind on a single piece of code for hours, iterating over and over until I like the way it works, the parameter names, etc.

Other people do not see the value in that whatsoever, and something that works is good enough. We both are valuable in different ways.

Also, theres the pace of advancement of the models. Many people formed their opinions last year, and the landscape has changed a lot. There’s also some effort requires in honing your skill using them. The “default” output is average quality, but with some coaxing higher quality output is easily attained.

I’m happy people are skeptical though, there are a lot of things that do require deep thought, connecting ideas in new ways, etc., and LLMs aren’t good at that in my experience.

Re: Grief and the AI split

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're using it as a 'super compiler', effectively a code generator and your .md file is the new abstraction level at which you code. But there is a price to pay: the code that you generate is not the code that you understand and when things go pear shaped you will find that that deterministic element that made compilers so successful is missing from code generated from specs dumped into an AI. If you one-shot it you…

We have human reviews on every PR. Quality and consistency are going up , not down. Partially because the agents follow the guidance much more closely than humans do and there is far less variance. Shortcuts that a human would make ("I'll just write a one-off here"), the agent does not...so long as our rules guide it properly ("Let me find existing patterns in the codebase."). Part of it is the investment in docs we'…

> We have human reviews on every PR.

There are some studies about maintaining attention over longer periods of time when there is no action required. It will be difficult to keep that up forever so beware of review fatigue and bake in some measures to ensure that attention does not diminish over time.

Re: Grief and the AI split

#20
I think it's more granular than this, though. I also like to "make computer do thing" and have enjoyed using AI. But I also like building systems, optimizing systems. I find AI is a great partner in that. I can churn out prototypes more quickly, iterate on them more quickly etc. That also applies intra-system level. I might have a theory about how a different data structure or caching layer will affect application performance. It's now so much faster to test those kind of theories, and actually building good scaffolding around them to test them scientifically.

Yes, sometimes I can also ask AI to evaluate things at the system level and it often has surprisingly good insights, but that is usually a collaboration where our powers combined comes up with a better solution. I enjoy that process, too.

I do sympathize with the people "in mourning". I feel like this is really about how your identify is tied up in what you do. I have generally identified as a command line wizard. The xkcd of the guy flying in with "perl" very much speaks to me. But AI absolutely crushes at this. It's not that useful a skill anymore. Now I identify more as a local AI expert instead :D

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