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Nobody’s going to steal your idea

johndcook.com

101–110 of 114 posts

Re: Nobody’s going to steal your idea

#101
post #5

sure - but signing a generic NDA on a cheap piece of copy paper doesn't cost much...so w/e, if it makes someone feel better then don't worry about it.

I'd respectfully disagree -- it depends who you are. Many entrepreneurs, rightly or wrongly, will treat that NDA as their own provisional patent/trademark/copyright. What if you sign that NDA and start working on a related project? (Or an unrelated project that becomes related, or a project that independently comes up with similar ideas/tech?). The problem with signing an NDA is that by definition you're not sure wha…

good point. I guess where I would have a legal objection to that line of thought is that an NDA != patent/trademark/copyright - and if it does then it is not strictly an NDA. Certainly maintaining independence of legal bindings is a nice freedom, but knowing what you sign (or choose not to sign) is probably the smart thing to do for any legal document.

"The problem with signing an NDA is that by definition you're not sure what you're about to see." - I am not sure I agree with this (sorry for being picky). To me an NDA means you won't share some material with another party. Whether you already know what that material is or not doesn't really have much to do with what an NDA is. That being said, odds are you won't know beforehand...

Re: Nobody’s going to steal your idea

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What you refer to as market opportunity is also commonly considered to be an idea. Nope. Wrong. The idea in your example is: "I want to make a widget that does x". The opportunity is: "I made some widgets that do x and 100 people bought them at $1,000 each during the last 30 days". An idea without an opportunity is: "I made some widgets that do x and I only found one person during the last 30 days who said they'd b…

So, really, an opportunity is a tested idea. I completely agree. It's hard to come up with an idea without at least some intuitive sense of what kind of need/desire its fulfilling. I think people deceive themselves here because they have a naturally inflated sense of how great their ideas are. To use your phrasing: people think their idea is great enough to require very little testing to become an opportunity - their…

Well, another way to put it is that you come up with ideas and only others can validate them into opportunities. You can't turn an idea into an opportunity. The market, your customers, determine if there's an opportunity in it somewhere.

But I'll reiterate what I said about opportunities: The can and do exist in the complete absence of ideas.

The value is in opportunities. There are people who would love to steal your opportunities. They don't give a shit about your ideas. That's too much work. They want you to hand-feed them the juicy opportunities. It's almost like the difference between R&D and just "D". The first is hard. Once the "R" is done, the "D" tends to be a lot easier to execute brilliantly.

I have a database of probably about 600 ideas accumulated over time. Most are probably crap. No market opportunity. I am in the habit of logging ideas without passing any judgement at the time they are generated. Why? The Pet Rock. As my wife likes to remind me, I am to fucking smart to have ever considered the idea of selling rocks as pets in a little box. And she is right. So I try to not judge ideas until I really take the time to evaluate whether or not an opportunity exists.

As I navigate through my idea database and start testing them I start to discover the ones that might represent real opportunities and focus on them.

Sometimes opportunities require a lot of work to validate. An example of this are most iPhone apps today. You get two days, maybe three in the "New" list under your category and then it's a quick trip to page 253. Invisible. Gone.

Does that mean that there is no opportunity in application x based on idea y? Not necessarily. Having an app published on the app store is not validation, it just means that your app is now available for others to see, if you can get them there. In order to validate the idea you have to now do the legwork to create awareness and bring people to your app. Only after a real effort to get hundreds or thousands of people to have a look can you honestly say if your idea for an app that does x represents a real market opportunity. Some get lucky and take off on day one. Hardly the norm, of course.

This, BTW, as a developer, is one of the most frustrating aspects of dealing with people who approach you with app ideas. They don't understand that thinking that something is great doesn't mean that a million people are going to run to buy it.

A case in point is this guy who approached me about doing yet another storybook for kids. There's a million of them out there. Great idea right? The market opportunity is certainly validated. Right? Lots of people buying them. Right? Well, no. Not really.

The other element of this that hasn't been discussed is barrier to entry or barrier to market penetration. Sure, you can come up with a new series of children storybooks with great art, voicing, interactivity and music. The idea and the opportunity are identified and validated. The problem is that it will cost a bundle in marketing to unseat the top ten or top five sellers in that category. An absolute bundle. So, even though a market opportunity exists the idea and the opportunity are nearly worthless unless someone comes in with a truckload of money to make it happen.

When the guy asks me to do the dev work for 10% of the revenue...well, thankfully I can multiply by zero at blinding speed. No thanks. I told him that I'd do it for 25% and a non-refundable revenue advance payment of $50K upfront. He left. That was me using my Jedi powers to have him leave me alone.

Re: Nobody’s going to steal your idea

#103
post #51
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't know it's a proven market until you sit down with a potential fundee and talk financials.

That's not true. If the business has been running 5 years, that tells you quite a bit. You can mine all sorts of activity information from the site, and you can get more through user interviews. Moreover, startup investors are completely happy to invest based on estimations of total available market. It's pretty easy math to look at the number of kids, the average cost of sitters and nannies, and typical consumption…

Sounds like market based competition.

Re: Nobody’s going to steal your idea

#104
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not buying your idea valuation logic. "Worthless" means lacking significant positive value. If business ideas had significant value, you'd see people buying them. They don't, though. They might by a proven opportunity, or they might buy knowledge. But ideas on their own? As unsaleable as used chewing gum. I really don't believe people should worry about business ideas being stolen. If your idea is so simple that…

It is true that for people to buy ideas they must have value. But the transaction must also be feasible. The trouble with ideas is that I can't easily prove to you the idea is valuable without having already given it to you, thus destroying your incentive to complete your end of the transaction. It may be that there isn't a market in ideas because they have no value. But it may also be that there isn't a market in id…

I suspect that's not particularly difficult to solve. Escrow is one solution. Profit sharing is another. Independent valuators would be a third. I imagine any energetic business lawyer could come up with a number of other approaches.

The problem is that nobody wants to buy raw ideas. Any decent entrepreneur has ideas coming out the wazoo. People who aren't decent entrepreneurs could probably use ideas, but they'll very rarely recognize that they need them.

There is a great market for proven ideas. That's why a major route for startup exit is acquisition. Once you've achieved product-market fit, plenty of people can see the value of your idea.

Re: Nobody’s going to steal your idea

#105

I actually did have someone steal my idea. I was interviewing for a technical co-founder and talked to a guy who seemed really interested. However, after a couple of conversations I got a weird vibe from him and went with someone else. (Oh, and I had $1M in funding at this point, & I was looking for a full partner, not someone to "just build my idea.") A few months later I find that he has started a similar company,…

I find that people who copy, or try to, didn't come up with the idea themselves - which means they didn't have the experience and knowledge, nor have the creativity in coming up with the solution on their own. This will limit their ability to pivot due to not necessarily having a full grasp of the important metrics, etc.. And really just their mind isn't structured to do that, and if it was they'd probably have their own ideas that could become successful - assuming they're able to learn how to execute well. Also, most stories that aren't genuine don't feel authentic - especially because they don't have the history to match it, like you mentioned with your 15+ years of experience, etc.. My own story and plans have evolved because of everything that's happened in my life, and I can talk about each important moment

It's very frustrating, and becoming livid has happened to me too.. It's even worse because many of the times they are people you're closer to than not, so there's a bigger element of trust broken there, too.

Congrats on being 5 years down the road, and continuing to evolve things further! Is the 5 years from initial MVP launch or when you came up with the idea? Your story is inspirational for me. In about 6 months I'm coming up on 3 years from when I decided to work on my projects full time, which have expanded tremendously, so at the moment it's still a lot of planning, organizing, preparing... lining up a lot of dominoes so then things will take off once ready.

Re: Nobody’s going to steal your idea

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ideas" and "market opportunities" sort of go hand in hand, don't you think? The market opportunity is assumed when someone talks about an idea for a business.

> "Ideas" and "market opportunities" sort of go hand in hand Only when the idea precedes the exploration of the opportunity space. Have an idea -> Build a prototype -> Show it around -> Close some sales. Here the idea is related to the market opportunity. It triggered a search for the opportunity when someone was interested or puzzled enough to do the work. Few will invest in an idea unless there's some kind of "suga…

I'm a "optics" (actually photonics-crypto) PHD candidate that also can build a RS422 protocol converter. You had luck I wasn't in their team :)

Re: Nobody’s going to steal your idea

#107
I had an idea stolen. It was pure philosophy... a means to help a woman understand how her man is motivated. Not a male / female thing, but that was a very marketable aspect, and (thus) the way I communicated the idea. It was butchered, but still sold $4m in books. The butchery got worse over two sequels. I seriously doubt that I will ever be able to communicate said idea (much less sell it) unless I can completely reconstruct its presentation.

Not saying that I disagree with the idea vs execution rhetoric here in the comments, I do agree... execution is more important. Execution in plant growing is more important than the seeds themselves... unless you lack the seeds.

Some here have said that at the right moment any arbitrary number of people will discover idea X. I would agree if the subtlety of the idea is not arbitrary, however the best ideas are unexpectedly early, and therefore subtle.

Do not mistake any of this as an argument for patents, or even fairness in a general sense. I know business is war. One's only recourse is carefulness, caution, the sacred texts called it wisdom.

Re: Nobody’s going to steal your idea

#108

I actually did have someone steal my idea. I was interviewing for a technical co-founder and talked to a guy who seemed really interested. However, after a couple of conversations I got a weird vibe from him and went with someone else. (Oh, and I had $1M in funding at this point, & I was looking for a full partner, not someone to "just build my idea.") A few months later I find that he has started a similar company,…

At that point, you were way past the idea stage.

Re: Nobody’s going to steal your idea

#109
Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

A local startup raised over $300k after stealing my work and trying to pass it off as their own but they had no idea how to execute on it after they raised. They're now grasping at how to find product-market fit and they've pivoted thrice because they can't pull-off what they ripped-off. We've found companies in Europe that came up with the same idea because the verticals we work in are more evolved there. Seeing others conjuring similar ideas validates that we're on the right track in a new market ripe with opportunity.

Re: Nobody’s going to steal your idea

#110

I actually did have someone steal my idea. I was interviewing for a technical co-founder and talked to a guy who seemed really interested. However, after a couple of conversations I got a weird vibe from him and went with someone else. (Oh, and I had $1M in funding at this point, & I was looking for a full partner, not someone to "just build my idea.") A few months later I find that he has started a similar company,…

Hey, would you be willing to be interviewed about this experience? Anonymously, if you like? I'm thinking about doing a book, and this would fit well into the sample chapter I'm writing right now.

If so, you can find contact details at http://williampietri.com/

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