I feel like this is related to these issues (with somebody attempting this approach for real): https://github.com/chardet/chardet/issues/327 https://github.com/chardet/chardet/issues/331
That's worth its own submission and discussion.
Malus – Clean Room as a Service
201–210 of 566 posts
Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service
#202[deleted]
Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service
#203Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service
#204There are two teenagers who learned about Malus in the last hour and have started figuring out how to actually build it, right now. They will not cite their source in their IPO statements.
it is straightforward to build this for real, here is my nearly one-shotted tldraw clone from a couple of weeks ago, https://x.com/c_pick/status/2028669568403578931 - the implementation side never saw the code, only the spec (in reality it did see the tldraw code in its training data, but you can't escape that anymore)
Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service
#205Am I the only one who saw the title and thought it was about physical clean-rooms?
No
Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service
#206This is essentially 'License Laundering as a Service.' The 'Firewall' they describe is an illusion because the contamination happens at the training phase, not the inference phase. You can't claim independent creation when your 'independent developer' (the commercial LLM) already has the original implementation's patterns and edge cases baked into its weights. In order to really do this, they would need to train LLMs…
This is definitely a parody though, not a real service.
Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service
#207This is essentially 'License Laundering as a Service.' The 'Firewall' they describe is an illusion because the contamination happens at the training phase, not the inference phase. You can't claim independent creation when your 'independent developer' (the commercial LLM) already has the original implementation's patterns and edge cases baked into its weights. In order to really do this, they would need to train LLMs…
This is definitely a parody though, not a real service.
This site is an obvious parody, but like most comedy these days it betrays the severity of the issues happening today.
Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
> why hasn't anyone done this for real? WDYM? LLMs are essentially this.
Most LLMs are trained on a lot of the source code for many open-source projects. This 'project' has the whole song-and-dance about never seeing the source code and separating the system to skirt around legal trouble. Why didn't anyone do that yet?
Because that's impossible. Any "robot" that can generate code must be trained on massive amounts of code, most of which is open source.
Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service
#209This is essentially 'License Laundering as a Service.' The 'Firewall' they describe is an illusion because the contamination happens at the training phase, not the inference phase. You can't claim independent creation when your 'independent developer' (the commercial LLM) already has the original implementation's patterns and edge cases baked into its weights. In order to really do this, they would need to train LLMs…
Obviously satire, but it will clearly be what happens in the future (predicting here, I'm not endorsing this practice). We can scratch train a new LLM on code generated from "contaminated" LLMs. We can then audit all the training data used and demonstrate that the original source wasn't in the training data. Therefore the cleanroom implementation holds. Current LLM training is relying less and less on human generated code. Just look at the open source models from China. They rely heavily on distilling from other models. One additional point. Exposure to the original source isn't enough to show infringement. Linus looked at UNIX source before writing linux.
Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service
#210The fact that it took me the comments sections to understand this is satire speaks a lot about the current status of where things are going. EDIT: Reading it again its quite obvious, I was just skimming at first, but still damn. Hilarious
I didn't see it was satire (having only skimmed the site) until scrolling through the comments and seeing this fake review being quoted. That's when I went "surely not", checked the site, saw it was really there, and was quite relieved this is not yet an actual thing!